Author: ISM Media

The International Solidarity Movement podcast episode four: People’s Resistance in the South Hebron Hills

In the fourth episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast we speak to Hafez Hurreini, a veteran organiser from the village of At-Tuwani. Hafez is the father of Sami, who we interviewed in episode three.

When we did our interview, Hafez had a metal pin in his arm after a brutal attack by settlers in September 2022. His attackers had claimed that it was Hafez that attacked them, and he was arrested and imprisoned. It was only because of footage of the attack taken by international volunteers proving what really happened that Hafez escaped a long prison sentence.

We asked Hafez about the work of the Popular Resistance Committee of the South Hebron Hills, and about the successes they have had in their struggle.Hafez was also involved in founding the Popular Struggle
Co-ordination Committee, and he talks about that too.

Links:

Reimagining Liberation through the Popular Committees – by Layth Hanbali for Al Shabaka

Armed settlers assaulted a Palestinian man. Guess who’s in jail? by Oren Ziv for 972 Magazine

Masafer Yatta – communities Israel is trying to drive out – by Btselem

Save Masafer Yatta website

International Solidarity Movement call to action – Masafer Yatta

If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, youI can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook

Supported by Shoal Collective

Transcript

(you can also see this by clicking transcript in the player above)

Length: 24:50

Introduction 00:01

Hey, welcome to international solidarity movement podcast [followed by Arabic translation]

Tom 00:18

Hello and welcome to episode four of the International Solidarity Movement podcast. In the last episode we heard from Sami Hurreini, about the anti-colonial struggle of young people. In this episode, we’ll hear from his father – Hafez Hurreini. omomWhen we did our interview, Hafez had a metal pin in his arm after a brutal attack by settlers in September 2022. His attackers had claimed that it was Hafez that attacked them, and he was arrested and imprisoned. It was only because of footage of the attack taken by international volunteers proving what really happened that Hafez escaped a long sentence. Hafez is a veteran organiser, who helped to establish the popular resistance committee of the South Hebron hills in the early 2000s. Popular Committees as a method of resistance have a long history in Palestine, going back to the late 1970s, and we’ve included a historical article about these committees as part of our show notes. We asked Hafez about the work of the Popular Resistance Committee of the South Hebron Hills, and about the successes they have had in their struggle. Years later, Hafez was also involved in founding the Popular Struggle Co-ordination Committee, and he’ll talk about that too. Right now International Solidarity Movement is calling for volunteers to come and support the struggle in Masafer Yatta and the South Hebron Hills. You can find out how by taking a look at the ISM website at palsolidarity.org We hope you enjoy the interview: Okay, so we’re here with Hafez Hurreini in At-Tuwani in the South Hebron Hills. And we’re going to talk about the history of the struggle here in the South Hebron Hills. I wanted to start off by asking about what it was like growing up. And first of all, did you grow up in this area? And what was it like growing up for you?

Hafez 02:13

Yes. I was born and I grew up in the village of At-Tuwani. Now I am 51 years old. Yeah, when, when I was growing up and when I opened my eyes, around, you know. I start[ed] like seeing all these injustices around by, you know, [them] stealing our land and establishing settlements, settlers attacks against us, all these things, you know. You know, as a child at night that this is like kind of occupation, and colonization or whatever. But, you know, little by little, I thought, like, knowing about this. This is an occupation. This is an apartheid. This is an ethnic cleansing against our people and injustices in this area.

Tom 03:09

Can you tell me when was – when did you first start to be active and to organize against the occupation and the settlements in the area?

Hafez 03:20

Practically, I started the end of 1999 and in 2000. After the eviction crime that coincided with Israeli occupation of evicting Masafer Yata villages, which in the area that [was] declared by the Israeli authority as a Firing Zone Area, and I remember that. Like it was in November 1999, that big Israeli military forces raided these villages with big military trucks and bulldozers. And they started just like destroying tents, caves, wells for the water, and then they just put the Palestinian families’ things on these military trucks, and they threw them to the other side of [the road] Route 317. that they consider it as kind of broader way to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians, the big Palestinian town here. So at that time, I started like my activism, and by you know, involving, in bringing media attention and bringing solidarity for the area, and just to – you know – try to resist that crime at the time, the eviction. Yeah, and then I started like, involving [myself] with more Palestinian activist[s] in the area, and you know, we manage to create, like, a body for the area to resist the occupation and the settlements around. Activists from all over the South Hebron Hills. And we founded the Popular Committee of the South Hebron Hills. Yeah, at that time, and according to what was happening around, it was completely clear that all the Palestinian human rights [was] violated under this occupation by the Israeli forces and by the settlers, it means we must like defend our rights.

But at the same time, we have to think deeply about – about which [what] is like an effective way to resist that? According to our experience and our knowledge, that [the] occupation has the power – I mean, internally inside the Israeli society, and outside, that, you know, they control the media and they show the Israelis and the internationals that the Palestinians always like kind of terrorist – yeah, like terrorist people. And they want just like, you know, to convince the Israelis. It means you – we have to like switch the way of the resistance, you know, we shouldn’t like follow our anger and just like to respond in a violent way. And it means we have to organize our own selves to go through non-violent means at that time. Yeah. And then we started our activities in non-violent means. I mean demonstrations, actions all over the area.

And then, at the same time, we, we also – we fighted them by their own law and their own rules. So back to the eviction – we contacted like Israeli lawyers, Palestinians, internationals, and we managed like to raise the issue of eviction to the Israeli Supreme Court. So after about three months of eviction, there was like, this decision that said that the Palestinians can get back to their villages. But at the same time, you know, the case is still open, like, kind of negotiation between the Palestinians. And the resistance of Masafer Yatta and the military administration, you know, to find some kind of a solution. So since 2000, until last May 2022 there was like the final decision, that the Supreme Court gave the army the green light to evict again, and to destroy again, Masafer Yatta.

Tom 07:37

You mentioned around 20 years ago, the formation of the Popular Committee in the South Hebron Hills. So can you explain the idea of a Popular Committee? And where this idea comes from? Is it an idea that existed already in Palestine? Were you organizing with, with other popular committees in other areas?

Hafez 07:58

So, South Hebron Hills and Masafer Yatta is [an] integral part of the whole West Bank and integral part of the Palestinian villages, that they are resisting in Area C, according to [the] Oslo Accords. When we started, like organizing resistance from South Hebron Hills under this kind of principle, you know. We have to defend our own rights, like by non-violent means. It means we have like to achieve a progress on the ground, you know, and we have, and we must, like, share the reality here. So I mean, in this way, because, you know, all the Palestinians, you know, [are] under threat of the occupation. And even if they are like silent, if they – if they don’t resist. But already, it’s, it’s kind of, you know, the daily resistance of the Palestinians, you know, for example, freedom of movement, you know, usually, and almost every day, we have like checkpoints, or harassment, and between the villages… We talk about the confiscation of the land under different excuses, you know. So the Palestinians go to defend their rights. I mean, to stop the stealing of the Palestinian land, usually they’ve got arrested and, you know. The Palestinians, even when they go to cultivate, to work on their land, you know, they end up [with] threat of being, you know, attacked by settlers, or being arrested. And, you know, the children when they go to their school, you know, the same story. We have the struggle with children until today, you know, that Palestinian children, you know, they can’t like reach their schools safely. They have to be escorted by Israeli soldiers, you know, to protect them from the settlers. So, in general, all the Palestinians, they are resisting. But you know, we took the responsibility, how to unify, I mean, this resistance, by creating this body that represents all the villages in Masafer Yatta, and how to keep going and defending our own rights.

So, yeah. So we, we can see that we succeeded, like to keep the resistance, like alive until this moment, and we can see, say that, you know, we get to successes. But at the same time, we can say that, the big success [is] that you know, we are still existing on our land, and in our villages until this moment. If you can imagine the whole and the huge suffering of the Palestinians, you can see around, you know, all the Palestinian villages around without any basic human services for life, you know; water, electricity, roads etc. So you can see, they have none of these.

In addition to all these crimes that’s committed by the Israeli army and by settlers, but you know, at the same time, until this, this moment, you know, the Palestinians you know, they are practicing sumud, which is a kind of reality that people still have the steadfastness to stay, and the determination to continue even so with all these, you know, crimes that’s committed by the occupation. So with this we, you know, we continue, and we have, like, even relationships with other popular committees in different places, you know, in the West Bank, from here until the north.

And me personally, I am one of the founder[s] of the PSCC, which is like the Popular Struggle Coordination Committee that [was] established in 2009. And I am a board member of this committee that represents the Palestinian popular committees in the whole West Bank. And we still going and, you know, recently, because, you know, like, we are getting old and you know how to keep the resistance and defending of the Palestinian rights alive. So, me personally, I am the founder of the Youth of Sumud group that, you know. They are continuing to struggle, I mean, because, you know, all the younger generation, you know, they are following the way.

Tom 12:20

And you mentioned that the Popular Committee was like helping to organize resistance for all the villages of Masafer Yatta. And I wondered how would you organize? Would there be representatives from each of the communities who would take part in the Popular Committee? I wondered how that how that was.

Hafez 12:39

As I said before, like, the Palestinians, they are struggling and resisting in their daily life, but when there’s like a big action that, you know, to respond [to], for example, for stealing Palestinian land under you know, [the] military, army, [or] whatever. So, we invite everyone, you know, just to come. Because, you know, actually, there exists on the ground a big resistance. This is like, additional things to do it. So, it’s like, an open for everyone. So, is it free, you know, to join that. And most of the Palestinians here, like, you know, they are involved and we are like, you know, activists in this, because – if they today, if they steal your own land, tomorrow, they will steal mine. It means, you know, we have to be together in order to just stop that, you know.

Tom 13:33

And has the resistance organized by the popular committees, has it been open for men and women to take part?

Hafez 13:40

Yeah, we have a very long experience with that. So we can say, in 2006, the occupation army started like establishing a wall to separate the whole area. I mean, establishing this wall along the bypass Route 317. It was completely clear for us, like, you know [if] they succeed, like to build this wall, it means they will cut the movement. And they will prevent the Palestinians to move from the [one to the] other side of the road. Okay. So, at that time, we started, like organizing weekly demonstrations, and the participants were everyone: Men, women, young, old, you know – even children, you know. They participated in that. So we used to go down to the roads, to sit down and block the road. Okay, so for about more than one and a half years for that, I mean, weekly demonstrations. Okay. At the same time, they keep, like, you know, working on that, which was along, about, 41 kilometers in the south in one way [direction]. And really they finished that, but at the same time, you as I said before, usually we go through – we fight them through their own law. Because, you know, the army, they were like saying “this is for security reasons, you know, [that] we are building that wall”, which it is completely not, okay.

And then by lawyers, you know, there was like another decision by the Supreme Court that said that the wall was illegal. Building that wall was illegal. It said it should be dismantled, okay. But as usual, you know, that was like a decision. If we, if we didn’t continue, you know, demonstrating against that [wall] they will never dismantle the wall. So we demonstrated until, you know, we forced them to dismantle and remove that wall. That was one of the big successes for the non-violent resistance and, you know, the participants. Everyone participated, you know, so the role of the women in particular, it was, you know, completely clear for everyone.

Tom 16:07

And you said that the formation of the Popular Struggle Coordination Committee, it was a way to kind of work together with other Popular Committees around around the West Bank?

Hafez 16:16

Yes, yes. Well, you know, when we thought about like founding like this committee, the main goal was to unify the non-violent resistance all over the West Bank, so we succeeded to do it. I mean, if there’s like a demonstration for them in Bil’In Okay, so all of the committees, you know, they join or they participate in the demonstration there. So if we had demonstrations in Kafr Qaddum, or Nabi Salih, or in Jordan Valley, or here, there is something for everyone, everyone is joining.

Tom 16:51

And you and your comrades in the popular committees, do you have like a shared vision for what you’re working towards, amongst yourselves?

Hafez 17:00

Actually, you know, we are struggling. And mainly we are work[ing as] human rights defenders, and, you know, we defend our basic human rights, you know. That’s like, you know, we are activists, but you know. We must like keep this alive, because we are fighting a state, okay? And [it is a] colonizing state, you know, that, you know, [they are] working day and night, just, you know, to ethnically cleanse all of us, you know. It means that, you know, we must do our best, I mean, to continue the struggle and never give up, you know. If we give up and stop for a day, you know, it means we will die, and we will leave soon.

So, yeah, that’s why, you know, we are thinking about, you know, how to keep this choice of the resistance to keep it alive through the, like, the new generation, I mean, let people to keep going with that. But at the same time, you know, the site, you know, we trust, like our determination, you know, but also we ask in everyone who believe in the human rights and to the whole world – just to take part and to be part of this struggle,

Tom 18:14

Okay. And one of the concepts that you’ve talked about in the interview so far is the concept of sumud or steadfastness and that’s a term that we hear very often here in Palestine, when people talk about their resistance, but the people listening outside of Palestine might not be so familiar with this idea. So could you just explain kind of what it means to you here in Palestine?

Hafez 18:38

You know, sumud became like, kind of a very deep meaning for the Palestinian life itself, that [is] present [in] the Palestinian life itself. For example, in here, I mean, being – or living in – in this situation, if you can imagine. That all your basic human rights is violated every single day, okay. And if it’s like violated, it means [either] to defend your rights, or to give up and you know, to help [to] let the occupation to reach their goal. But as the people, you know, believe in their own rights, and they know, well, that the goal of the occupation with all these aggressive tools, all these violations, with all these attacks, their main goal is to kick you out. So practicing your life, defending your own rights under this such situation, it’s like the resistance and this, like this is the sumud itself. This became kind of part of our own culture, that sumud is being connected to the land, defending your rights, whatever the price is. So that’s why you know, you can see the Palestinians for, for example: me myself, you know, my mother, many times got attacked by settlers, like, on our own land. She was hospitalised, she got fractured in her jaw, in her leg, in her head, okay. But she never thought about [to] give up and to go away from the land.

And what happened also with me, myself, [I have] been attacked so many times, and you know. Just like three months ago, [on] September 12 [2022] I also got attacked, you know, I fractured my two arms, and I [got] arrested and so on. But even so, whatever happened and whatever will happen to me: I never, I never will leave my land. Because you know it’s completely clear what they do. It’s like, pushing me to leave my land, but I never do it. And this is, you know, practicing my life. Okay. Under all these, you know, violations. Under all these crimes, under all these attacks, this is the real sumud, this is like, for me surely, it’s like the the meaning for sumud.

Tom 21:08

Thank you. Is there anything else you’d like to say to people listening from from outside?

Hafez 21:13

Yeah, for sure. You know, like, it’s kind of a message for everyone who believe in human rights, who believes in peace, who believes in dignity. [They] must like take steps in that. That’s like, you know, all the people all over the world. They have like their own government, but maybe most of them will see and they never trust like those governments. Because you know, they are under pressure by the global policy. We can say, that [will] never be on our side, but you know, we are calling every human being who believes in peace and dignity and believes in human rights – [they] must stand with us to get our rights, you know. What’s going on that, you know, we are facing here in Palestine in South Hebron Hills we are facing the ethnic cleansing which is a big war crime. And everyone must like stand with us, you know, even [when] you know, probably you can’t come – here – to see by your own eyes,

what’s going on. But at least you know, you can try just to learn more about what’s going on here. Because, you know, we can see all the Western people and the Western world, they are victims, mostly they are victims of the Israeli propaganda around the whole world. And you should open your eyes, and to see the reality and to be part of the struggle to stop the crimes that’s being committed since decades against us in Palestine

So this is my message, you know, you have to act and you have to be part of our own struggle against, like, the Israeli occupation and against apartheid, and the ethnic cleansing that we are facing.. Finally, would you like to see more international volunteers coming here to join the struggle in Masafer Yatta? So, really, I invite everyone to come down and to be part of our own struggle here, you know. We feel that you know, we can breathe through like all these activists who are coming from all over – around the world – just like to, I mean, to join us and to be with us like on the ground. Because I said before, and I keep saying: we are fighting in our daily life. Yani to survive and to defend our rights. And the basic human rights is really violated every single day. That’s why, you know, I am calling everyone to and invit[ing] everyone just like to come down and to be part of, to be with us in our struggle.

Tom 24:08

Thank you very much Hafez, and yeah, if people want to learn more about the struggle in Masafer Yatta you can take a look at the Save Masafer Yatta website. And to learn about joining the struggle as an internationalist you can, you can look at the International Solidarity Movement website, which is palsolidarity.org. But thanks so much for, for talking, talking to me this evening. Yeah, thanks so much. And, yeah, we wish you victory in the struggle and we wish for a free Palestine.

 

Announcing the International Solidarity Movement podcast

Welcome to the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) podcast. ISM is a Palestinian-led group which – for more than 20 years – has provided an important platform for international volunteers to join and support the popular resistance against Israel’s colonial occupation of Palestine.

This podcast has been made by ISM volunteers, aiming to amplify voices from the Palestinian struggle – and raise awareness of ISM’s work. Find out more about ISM at www.palsolidarity.org

 

The International Solidarity Movement podcast episode one: An introduction to ISM

In this first episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast, we interview Abdel Karim – who has been with the movement since the early 2000s.

The ISM is a grassroots Palestinian-led organisation, with principles of non-violence , non-hierarchy, and anti oppression. It makes all of its decisions by consensus. Over the last 20 years it has been an important way for people internationally to get involved in the Palestinian popular struggle.

Links:

International Solidarity Movement website

Join ISM’s work in Palestine

If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, you can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook

Supported by Shoal Collective

Transcript 

(you can also see this by clicking transcript in the player above)

Length: 27:10

Introduction 00:01

Hey, welcome to international solidarity movement podcast [followed by Arabic translation]

Tom 00:13

Hello and welcome to the first episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast This podcast has been made by three volunteers who visited the West Bank in December 2022, to join the work of the Palestinian-led International Solidarity Movement. My name’s Tom – and I first joined ISM over 20 years ago now – In 2002. Since then I have been on many visits to Palestine over the years.

I made this podcast with my comrades Hazel and Nicole. We wanted to make the podcast to amplify some of the struggles that are happening right now in Palestine, and particularly to raise awareness of the work of ISM. We’re hoping that some of you who’ll listen might consider joining ISM in Palestine.

The three of us are involved in anti-repression organising in the UK – supporting prisoners, and people experiencing state repression. We wanted to learn about how people in Palestine support each other in the face of the Israeli occupation’s prison system, and many of our interviews touch on this subject.

We’ve recorded a series of 14 interviews. This first interview is with Abdel Karim, who’s an amazing Palestinian friend and comrade who has been with the ISM since almost the beginning. We asked him some questions about himself and what drew him to working with the International Solidarity Movement. The ISM is a grassroots Palestinian led organisation, with principles of non-violence , non-hierarchy, and anti oppression. It makes all of its decisions by consensus.

First a note about the way the use of the term non-violence in this interview. ISM is part of the Palestinian popular ‘non-violent’ unarmed. resistance against the occupation (a resistance which – I should add – is met by extreme militarised armed violence by the Israeli forcesand settlers). In contrast to many strands of European pacifism’, ISM does not see non-violence as the only legitimate tactic against Israeli colonisation. Instead the ISM points out that the Palestinians have the right to use force to resist. However, the goal of ISM is to use non-violent tactics as a way of furthering the Palestinian struggle. And now I’ll pass over to Nicole and Abdel Karim:

Nicole 02:25

Hello, thank you for joining us today. Please can you share a little bit about yourself and how you got involved with ISM? Nicole: What was it that led you to ISM? What do you think is the role of internationalists who come?

Abdel Karim 02:33

Hello. Welcome and I’m happy meeting you and working with you. I am Abdel Karim, [I am] Palestinian. Now I’m a freelance journalist, but I used to be an activist and also a human rights defender [for] last, like 30 years, after [my] release from the prison.

I have been a student in Turkey, as a mechanical engineer. During a vacation coming back to visit my family I was arrested, accused to do [illegal] activity – at that time in ’80s to be a member even in the student union – the Palestinian student union – or any political party, it is illegal according to the Israeli occupation security system, which is not a real system, it is an occupation system. So I spent like from 1984 until 1990 in prison – six years – sentenced first for five years for being an activist and for membership in a political party within the PLO [Palestine Liberation Organisation]. And after six months of being released I was arrested again and put in administrative detention. Because it was during the First Intifada, and they used to arrest Palestinians, even [though] I work[ed] as a journalist at that time, at the beginning. I [had got] engaged and [was] starting my new life. But anyway, they arrested me for six months, then they extend [an]other six months, accusing me that I do something even during while I was in prison, which is fake. Then I [was] released in 1990. Married, and now I have five children. I work[ed] as a journalist in Al Ayyam newspaper, as a reporter for that newspaper. And after 10 years, I quit and work as a Palestinian freelance journalist. As you may know, that ISM, the International Solidarity Movement, started in 2001 when some Palestinian activists and other international volunteers [were] here – found that during the Second Intifada when it started in 2000 – that there is a need to do something to protect the Palestinians, from the violence of the occupation forces at that time, when they invade all the Palestinian cities, making curfews, road blocks and killing a lot of Palestinians. So those internationals and Palestinian activists joined together to act and to participate in Palestinian non-violent direct actions against the occupation. So it started like this. They make their principles. As a journalist in Tulkarem, and in the hot areas that was in the North – Nablus, Tulkarem, Jenin and others – and there is a lot of international volunteers. So we [made a local] group of this movement, I joined this movement, because I like – I really convinced and like – the principles and the rules that they are working with. [I was] especially convinced with nonviolent direct action resistance, including boycott as the most active way to show our issue and to lead us for freedom. What made me like ISM in general, is because at that time, I [was] a member of different societies in Tulkarem, including the Red Crescent. And, and we hosted those international volunteers in our society, because they’re doing a great work for us. And as journalists… it leads me also to free movement because the Israeli’s occupation will put more obstacles against Palestinian journalists, even though we hold an International Press Card, we are mostly targeted. International volunteers [did] much moving [of] road blocks, breaking the curfews, joining the ambulances to rescue the injured people. This great work involved me.

And also the rules, ISM have – used to have – three main principles. First, the Palestinian-led organisation. Even though it includes both Palestinians and internationals, but [it is] Palestinian-led. Which means that we, as ISMers – as a movement, as volunteers, believing in non-violence, will follow what the Palestinian grassroots organisation, what the grassroots needs, and what they’ve learned. Palestinian-led means also that the international activists are not initiating any kind of activity, They are just participating, being in solidarity, stand[ing] hand-by-hand with the Palestinians in direct non-violent actions. So, the other principle is non violence, we believe in non violence as a power, of nation, of people against the oppression. So, non violence, it is not a tactic, it is a strategy of ISM and the strategy of a lot of liberation movements, for example like India, South Africa and other places. The other thing that attracted me was that in the past, I was a member in a political party, which depends on hierarchical – I don’t know this exactly in English – a hierarchical system. And ISM is uhhierarchical. So, there [are] no leaders, all the volunteers, all the members in this organisation are having the power of making decisions together. No leaders, and no power – no one tell us what to do. We are doing what comes from the grassroots, what are the needs from the community. So we are here for like joining the Palestinian nonviolent struggle being like a protective presence, and documenting the violations from the Israeli occupation forces and settlers – colonial settlers, illegal settlers – [who are] here acting against Palestinian people, land, and their homes. [We are] against the system of ethnic cleansing… house demolishing and confiscating land and uprooting of trees, and everything [that]’s happening from the occupation forces. And we are believe in this also, ISM believes that the Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation, according to the international law – in every ways. But ISM like use the nonviolent strategy in that struggle. So people are appreciated those internationals, which gives hope. Yeah, the issue is, in general, also, there is two other issues which attracted and encouraged people to join ISM. First of all, ISM volunteers are self-funded. So we are not under an umbrella of any political party, or any conditional funds come from any side. So we have our independent policy. And also most of all, they are not related or connected to any political party. So we are connected to the needs of the Palestinian movement, with the Palestinians. So this gives the respect for ISM volunteers [in] the Palestinian community in general.

Nicole 11:59

What sort of things do people do like day to day? And obviously, you know, it’s been going a really long time – what are some of the kinds of successes you’ve seen of like the power of ISM here?

Abdel Karim 12:11

Yeah, there’s a lot of successes, I said that seeing international volunteers presence here in solidarity with Palestinians gives the hope of Palestinians that we are not alone, we will not lose the hope. Also ISM – in the past – when they started building the apartheid wall against West Bank, we managed to stop it and highlight how it affects the Palestinian life. And in the past also ISM activists when they are in solidarity with Palestinians who[se] homes will be demolished, stay… at home resisting the demolition order, either to [stop it], or delay it until the people can reach the court and stop it. We have a lot of succe[ss] in this issue. Nowadays, maybe the increasing of the violence from the Israelis, and they didn’t care about the international volunteers Or even about the human rights, even in this case, the highlight of the Palestinian case with volunteers, human rights activists joining ISM in their countries because most of the work for the international volunteers when they are seeing in their eyes, what’s happening here and participating and feel what’s happening here, when they return back they make a lot of activities for Palestinians within their countries. They managed to change a little bit public opinion in those countries, to put pressure on their governments who usually – specially European countries, United States – usually, like supporting and still supporting Israel… so Palestinians reach many succe[ss] in the field of highlight[ing] whats the life under the occupation, and make a public opinion [that] the Palestinian goals should be solved. The Palestinians should have their rights for freedom, return and justice.

Nicole 14:34

It’s been like a real pleasure to meet you here, and have training from you, and have little moments of conversation with you about your life. And I think for people listening from other countries it would be amazing if you can share a little bit more about your background – if you feel comfortable – like what politicised you?

Abdel Karim 14:54

This is not only me. It is it’s happening for every Palestinian, like students or even children, when they live under the occupation for this long time. I [was] born – I am 60 years old, 65 actually, today is my birthday [laughter] – Yeah 65 years old. I [was] born before the occupation of ’67. And my family used to be from Yaffa [Jaffa], from ’48 [The name given to the territories taken by Zionist forces in 1948]. But we are not registered as refugees, we are living in Tulkarem, and we have homes in Yaffa. So we lost most of our land. So Palestinian people in general are very connected to politics because of their cause. So as a child – nine years old born under the occupation and in the ‘60’s, ‘70’s [there was] a lot of resistance because we thought that this occupation should be ended – so I involved in politics, as a child in the school – because at that time [in the] ’70s there is a lot of military forces in our lives, in between our homes every day. We are facing them, [they] invaded our schools, killing… and we are involved in demonstrations – and most of the time, from ’67 until ’93, when the PA [Palestinian Authority] established there is no armed resistance inside the West Bank and Gaza. It is only like non-violent resistance, maximum throwing stones to express our anger, our rights. So in this environment I was, and then I become like, turn to the let’s say, [the] communist or leftist strategy.

Then I finish my school and there is no university here – for the capacity of most of the Palestinian students – so I study outside, I went to Turkey – to Jordan first – and to Turkey.[inaudible] In Turkey I [was] involved in politics through the Palestinian Students Union, and with the political parties. So this gives me the power when I come here and – because of my activity outside – which is just telling people what’s going on here, and joining some protests here in the vacations. So I was arrested here while I’m coming to visit, at the border between Jordan and the West Bank, which was under the control of the Israelis, and charged for five years for memberships [of political organisations]. When I was released in 1989, it was the First Intifada, which is the big uprising for Palestinian people. It is normal to participate in it. Of course, because [it was] forbidden to travel to continue my study forever, at that time. So no hope for going back to Turkey, or even [to study] in the West Bank. I involved in to change my… work. Because being in prison for like five years, we are very sociable people, and involved in politics. And when I married, she [my wife] asked me what I [would say] to [our] family [about what my occupation would be]. I told her, tell [them] he is a journalist. And then I go to the media, take some workshops, then study [media] in Bir Zeit [university], and I was involved in media work. This is what happened. But we continue [through] the uprising – the First Intifada – the Second Intifada, and the ’90s. All the time [I did] media work as a journalist, and as an activist seeing… a lot of violations – I continue my activity besides my work, and besides [I was] a family keeper, or whatever. So it is normal – and this is the story of every Palestinian of that generation. And it is the story of every Palestinian in this generation also, living under this environment of road blocks, killing, confiscating, demolishing homes – it involved every Palestinian. It involved even international human rights volunteers here. What about Palestinians? And yeah, we feel that as a Palestinian. I feel, and all the Palestinians feel that we will not develop our country, we will not get good economic situation without being free, or hav[ing an] independent state- of this longest occupation, which [is] like doing everything in order to take us out, [already] half of our nation, or more than half – as Palestinians are 14 million now. Maybe six, millions living in Gaza, and the West Bank, East Jerusalem and in what we call Israel, or ’48.

Nicole 20:56

So you know, we’re here in December 2022. And there’s been some clear elections of very right wing politicians in ’48, in Israel. How do you think this is going to affect things in Palestine? And what’s your perspective the necessary direction for liberation of Palestine in the future?

Abdel Karim 21:18

It is not the new that the right wing – or fascist – parties are winning the elections. Because always the Israeli governments are from right wing in general, and continue the project of Zionist in general. The bad issue is from the Palestinian side. Today, for example, it is 2023 – more than 30 years old since signing [the] Oslo Agreement, which is called the ‘peace process’. And most of what happens in this 30 years [is that] that more land is confiscated, more expanding of settlements, more violence created, either from Israeli occupation forces or the colonialist settlers – [now there are] maybe around 800,000 Israeli settlers living in the West Bank – they are taking the land. And on the other side, the weakness in Palestinian political parties, PLO [Palestine Liberation Organisation] the division between Gaza and the West Bank. This [has] weakened the Palestinian political leadership, including [the] establish[ment of the] PA [Palestinian Authority] – it goes on the condition of funds, and also affected by very big corruption issues, that make the Palestinian cause very weak.

But on the other hand, the new generation – or the population – which suffered from the occupation, I think they are about to explode against all the[se] system[s]: Israel’s occupation first, and also the PA. Without a big mass of resistance, and the only type of resistance, strategy of resistance [that] can gain is participating as much as population. I have hope, because of the public opinion in the West, like, especially to international activists, international volunteers, international human rights organisations who see in their eyes – that they can a little bit make some changes [to] the public opinion because we need [it]. The Arab Palestinian media, and Arab media is very weak compared to the Zionist media… so that those activists or volunteers coming here and move it or send our message to the European media, making activity in solidarity with Palestinians are chang[ing] the power of the Israeli media, and at least in the communities in Europe – not for the government, because the government are dedicated to supporting Israel as a base for controlling the area in the Arab countries. So I think nowadays, it is up to the Palestinian 14 million nation to do something. Even the ones who are outside – specially in Syria, Lebanon and the refugee camps are facing very bad situation, which gives them no power, just for fighting for living, not supporting. So it depends on how much the people are steadfasting here, how much [we] refuse immigration. Because what happened in ’48, shouldn’t happen again. And it will not happen again.

Nicole 25:45

So finally, one of the aims of this podcast is to encourage people to come. What would you say to people that are maybe thinking about it but are not sure?

Abdel Karim 25:55

I told you that the Palestinian cause now depending on the pressure putting on Israel by the United Nations in general, and the European countries who support Israel. And [they] will not change their policies if they haven’t pressure from their community. So I think that also Palestinians didn’t want to feel left alone. So when they see more internationals coming in solidarity with them, it gives them hope, because they know that [they] are very supportive to them. So I encourage as much volunteers, and people – normal people – to come here and see [the situation] on the ground, in order to face the Zionist media. This is first, and also to support the Palestinians and give this power for the Palestinian to continue their struggle for their rights, justice, freedom and return.

The International Solidarity Movement podcast episode two: Surviving settler violence in Masafer Yatta

In episode two of our podcast we speak to Gassim Hamad Tahan from the village of Mufagara, in Masafer Yatta, in the South Hebron Hills.

Gassim told us how the experience he had growing up is different to those of his children and grandchildren, and about his dedication to steadfastly staying on the land, despite violent attacks by settlers, and a colonial army intent on evicting Palestinians from the area.

Links

Scenes from a Jewish pogrom -972 Magazine report on the settler attack on Mufagara

International Solidarity Movement call to action – Masafer Yatta

Save Masafer Yatta website

Masafer Yatta – communities Israel is trying to drive out – by Btselem

If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, you can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook

Supported by Shoal Collective

Transcript

(you can also see this by clicking transcript in the player above)

Length: 26:29

Introduction 00:01

Hey, welcome to International Solidarity Movement podcast [followed by Arabic translation]

Hazel 00:18

Hello and welcome to the second episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast. My name’s Hazel and I’m happy to be joining you today. So this interview is with Gassim Hamad Tahan, who is fellahin – which is basically translatable to being a land worker, a peasant, or a traditional farmer – in the village of Mufagara, in Masafer Yatta, in the South Hebron Hills. We spent some time in Mufaqara as part of ISM’s work to be a presence in case of demolitions or attack by the occupying forces. We got to join in with some of the traditional work Gassim and his family do day to day, which involves looking after a herd of goats, donkeys, chickens, and other animals, building, as well as being shown how to bake sweets by the younger people in the family. We recorded this episode sat in Gassim’s family home. Some of the children can be heard in the background at different points whispering and bringing tea, and we also left Gassim’s full answers to our questions in Arabic in the podcast, so that English and Arabic speakers can listen. The valleys and hills of Massafer Yatta were ruled a closed military zone called ‘Firing Zone 918’ in the 1980s. This is an Israeli state ruling that claimed the area was supposedly ‘uninhabited’, and therefore can be used for the occupying force’s military practice, despite the fact Palestinians have been living and working in the region for many, many generations with traditional ways of life, like living in caves, shepherding, and subsistence farming, sometimes semi-nomadically. The occupying state has violently tried to force families out of the area for decades. This has been done through legal rulings in the courts, supporting settler violence and settlement expansion, and by carrying out demolitions of Palestinian homes and property. Now the residents of the firing zone are under a renewed, imminent threat of eviction. Gassim told us how the experience he had growing up is different to those of his children and grandchildren, and about his dedication to steadfastly staying on the land. Today we’re in the village Mufagara which is in Masafer Yatta in the Firing Zone 918 and we’re interviewing Gassim Hamad Tahan about his experiences living under the occupation and the resistance. So yeah, thank you very much for joining us. I’m just gonna pass over and ask you to just introduce yourself and your family and maybe the history of the village? And just say a bit day to day like what it’s like living here?

Gassim 02:44

[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]

Translation 02:51

His name is Gassim Hamad Tahan from Mufagara village. What his daily life [is] here, it’s really about fearing and like scary day, like in any moment he is feeling that he could be killed or arrested. So fears and his worries are everyday in his heart and about his small children his sons and about his house. So like from all of the sides that his life is like surrounded of fear and worries. Like before the eighties, before even the occupation came to the Massafer Yatta area, it was like a good life, a safe life, like really having a good life with like the family, there was no threats on them so like he says that all his life is surrounded by worries and fear from [being] expelled evicted, killed or arrested even.

Gassim 04:42

And is it possible for you to say a bit more about what it’s like day to day? He’s felaheen, so he’s like a farmer who’s living with the land. Is it possible to talk a bit about that connection with the land and maybe how it has been in the past and also how it is now. But what does the land like mean for him? [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]

Translation 07:12

His life as a farmer born before the occupation arrived and the settlers and everything else that happened. They were having a very good life, like, going with their sheep everywhere no one can prevent them to reach their land. They plough the land, farm it and harvest it, so they were like really having a simple life, living in caves and some tents and some like – what was in the past, there was nothing like services that like came to them. So after the occupation arrived, the confiscating of the land, stopping the people to reach their land, and even the settler harassment on the farmers and also the shepherds – they were killing the sheep, they were like shepherding with the sheep when settlers came and killed some of the sheep, and you know threatening them. So they started like, it was really something that scared them and prevent them to go, because they will risk their life for that.

So like he was asking like for all of the countries to stand with them, because they are simple farmers and they want to have their simple life. They want to live as the settler living in the illegal outpost that was established in the Palestinian land, that have all of the human services – they want to live like them. Not like if you want to go – if you want to build a simple tent to live in, like to go out from the cave, and to live in a simple house, or a tent, they will immediately demolish it and confiscated it. So he ask just for like a simple life, safe with no threats. I want to ask him also about what is his connection with the land.

Gassim 09:01

[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]

Translation 09:25

So his land, like he used to think that cannot like lost it. So he just take it from his grandfather and his grandfather took it from his parents also. This like the land has come to him now, from his father, so now he’s like, he has the connection between him and the land, that he cannot like leave it. And he can pay any price in order to not to like leave his land. And even if he would go back to live in the caves, and if there is any threats on him, he will just stay on his land because there is no other way to go.

Hazel 10:03

So we also mentioned that this is a firing zone, and I was wondering if you could explain a bit about what that means. Because the people who are listening will be coming internationally they won’t necessarily know what are the conditions, what legally does it mean, and what does it really mean for the people living here? So if you can explain a bit about that it would be amazing

Translation 10:42

Since the ‘67, when the Israeli occupation first occupied the West Bank, and until it reached Masafer Yatta in the 80s, they announced Masafer Yatta as a closed military zone. And from this, like they used this excuse to, to steal more land and expand more settlements. And settlers are in, in order to – as one of the tools that the occupation uses to harass the Palestinians and make them feel, like, scared and fear to lose their lands.

So since the you know, these like, policy that, you know, they’ve announced Masafer Yatta as a closed military zone, and there are people who’s living in this area, and they [the Israeli occupation] didn’t have the right even to announce [the military zone as uninhabited] because there are the people who are living here. And this is a threat on the people to be killed. Because this is a very dangerous thing on the people. So this like, what they announced as a closed military zone, is an excuse in order to evacuate the Palestinians from their lands, from their villages – from their own villages. He’s like, even imagine that he’s saying that, that the village is now in 2022. And until now, there is the fighting and the eviction, you know. This is like we want to imagine the future could be a good future, not a bad future. So he just wants to have days that are like those in the past, there is no occupation, no harassment, no threats, nothing.

So he’s like, just hoping for all of these violations to stop, and for the Israeli occupation forces to go out, and take the settlers and the settlements – to take them out. And this what he means, you know, I just – he mentioned something and I just mentioned from me just to give them the real idea.

Hazel 15:09

So is it possible to say a bit more about like, if you remember before the Firing Zone, what it was like growing up here, and could you expand a bit more on what the conditions were like how it felt in those times?

Gassim 15:21

[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic

Translation 16:03

So he was born in Mufagara village and his beautiful moment in his life was when he was a child because there was no fear. Nothing to care about. Life is like funny. You go to study in Yatta walking like one hour and back. And this shows how in the past everything was – you can go wherever you want. wherever you can go, and your parents will not be worried about you, because there is nothing or any threats on you. So, he said like, these are the best days that I have lived in. Now, today like, after he has grown up and all of these threats came and all of the occupation started to harass the Palestinians.

Even you know, now that his children now they are studying in At-Tuwani village, and even though the distance between here and At-Tuwani is just one kilometer. And they send their children in the morning and you know, they feel the fears and worries about them. You know, they just count to ten to take them to the school and to come back, because there is no safety, there is settlers – they can attack them or they have threats. And with your children you cannot like put them anywhere. So like he said like there’s a very big distance between the past and today.

Hazel 18:18

Is it possible to just say like how many children live in the village and you know what it’s like for them growing up here? We’ve met a lot of the kids and they’re really amazing, and very funny, and very friendly, they’ve really welcomed us as guests very very well, and I really thank them for that. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about and what it might be like for them.

Gassim 18:54

[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic

Translation 19:27

So he said like these children [are] born under the risk and under the occupation. And even they said when we want to walk them to school sometimes, they send the police sometimes, because maybe the settler will meet them in the road and they will attack them. So they used to go with them to take them to school and back. So their like routine – these children like while they’re playing up there, when they see an army or settler, he just run[s] to his father and he says ‘there’s army or settlers, maybe they will do [something to] us, they will attack us’. He says ‘no, just don’t worry’.

So the last thing that I want to add to what is happening. And really, as you can say a massacre here, that very big huge number of settlers from the illegal outposts of Havat Ma’on and Avigail, they gathered and they attacked this village, brutally. And the army were with them, even they were like saving them, you know, and protecting them. They were having guns, they were throwing stones on the houses and there was one child that was injured on his head. He was sleeping and there was one big stone it was it was like [thrown on] his head. So he was hospitalised.

And even then, there was no justice that day. The cars were burned , and the house were destroyed. And after that every child here was having a very, very big problems with his psychological things. So, he was even after that, when he wanted to go, when he saw settler or army, he would just ask his father ‘will they do the same thing with what they have done the last year?’, or something like that.

So these like, also the families, they are just taking care of the children to like – to get this fear out of them and you know, to resist as they resist, during their lives. And you know, he just wants his children and the children in the community to have their rights as other children in the world. That they’re having the safety. All of the rights of education to go to school safe, not to face the checkpoints, to not have the injustice, the attacks. So he just hopes to his children to have all their rights as other children in the world.

Hazel 22:27

I’m really sorry to hear about the attack. It’s absolutely horrible, and especially a child being injured is completely unforgivable and really disgusting. I was wondering if there was anything else that you wanted to share and also, if you wanted to say anything about – about or for – international people coming here about why they should come? And if there’s any other message to give to the people who might be listening?

Gassim 23:11

[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic] [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]

Translation 23:57

So he’s very grateful for the presence here and he is very thankful for all the efforts that they do that they came to be in solidarity with the people. And for example like including he is going to shepherding at least he feels some people that are standing with them, that there’s still some people who really care about that case, the Palestinian case, about all the violations that happens against them. And even now like just to show how the international presence is important is, for example, it happened with them when one time is one settler he was going to attack them, but there was international people with them. And they said for them ‘come tomorrow without these people’ you know as he just want to attack them.

Gassim 24:37

So we know that Khallet Al-Daba’ is facing eviction at the moment imminently and we’re just wondering. if they’re evicted does that mean that this village also will be next? Is it that this will then be evicted as well? [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic] [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]

Translation 25:40

So he say, he hope not, to the [eviction of] Khallet al-Daba’ village, but he said if they will evict the people and demolish everything there they will – they will not just on[ly] this village, they will go around all the Palestinian villages in Masafer Yatta. So this will be a threat on all the people around, in the community, and he hope not to happen this thing, and to have a big solidarity from everywhere from outside Palestine or inside, to stop all of this eviction and ethnic cleansing that the Israeli occupation is doing.

Hazel 26:15

Shukran, shukran. Hurriya Filistin!

The International Solidarity Movement podcast episode three: Steadfastness – Youth Resistance in Palestine

In this third episode of the ISM podcast our guest is Sami Hurreini, who is a really inspiring youth organiser from At-Tuwani in the South Hebron Hills. He’s part of a group called Youth of Sumud. 

Sumud is an Arabic word meaning steadfastness, and its a central concept in the Palestinian popular resistance to the occupation. 

We spoke to Sami in December 2022 about what people are doing to survive in the face of the occupation’s policies, and about what drew him to organising paricularly with youth. 

Links

Youth of Samud’s twitter

Save Masafer Yatta website

International Solidarity Movement call to action – Masafer Yatta

Masafer Yatta – communities Israel is trying to drive out – by Btselem

f you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, you can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook

Supported by Shoal Collective

Transcript

(you can also see this by clicking transcript in the player above)

Introduction 00:01
Hey, welcome to international solidarity movement podcast [followed by Arabic translation]

Tom 00:18
Hey and welcome to the third episode of the ISM podcast.  Our guest this episode is Sami Hurreini, who is a really inspiring youth organiser from At-Tuwani in the South Hebron Hills. He’s part of a group called Youth of Sumud.

Sumud is an Arabic word meaning steadfastness, and its a really central concept in the Palestinian popular resistance to the occupation.

The South Hebron Hills is a rural,sparsely populated area in the South of the West Bank. Its incredibly beautiful, but subject to intense violence from the Israeli army and colonists.

I first met Sami in 2018, when Youth of Sumud were first becoming active. Youth organisers decided that they had had enough of watching the occupation taking more an more of their land, they decided to try to take some of it back. They did this by starting to renovate caves in the village of Surura, and establishing a community centre there, in order to restablish a Palestinian presence in the area.  Youth of Sumud had a lot of success in Surura, but they were also met with repression. Sami has been imprisoned for his organising, and hospitalised by the violence of the settlers. But Youth of Sumud refuses to be intimdated. Right now in the South Hebron Hills, the Israeli occupation is preparing to evict the residents of the villages of Masafer Yatta, something that has been being planned for decades. Residents have been resisting the evictions in the courts for more than twenty years, But in July last 2022, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the evictions could go ahead.

Local people are standing their ground, in the face of massively increased pressure from the Israeli state – which includes demolitions of houses and schools.  The International Solidarity Movement is supporting the resistance of the people in Masafer Yatta – and is calling for international volunteers to join the struggle there. We spoke to Sami last December [2022] about what people are doing to survive in the face of the occupation’s policies, and about what drew him to organising paricularly with youth. Okay, so we’re here with Sami from Youth of Sumud. And that’s an organization based in Masafer Yatta in the South Hebron Hills. But right now we’re waiting outside of Ofer Military Prison close to Ramallah, for a comrade from At-Tuwani to be released from prison. And we thought we’d take the opportunity to do an interview about Youth of Sumud. So Sami, could you introduce yourself? And well, first of all, could you explain the pressure that people face from the occupation in the South Hebron Hills, and particularly the current situation? And in Masafer Yatta? If that would be okay.

Sami 03:01
Yeah, and thank you for being here with us today, and for this interview. Okay, so I’m Sami Hurreini, I am an activist from Masafer Yatta. I’m 25 years old. I was raised up and born in Masafer Yatta, in a family – in like a very struggling family against occupation. Starting from my grandmother [who was a] refugee in 1948, and then to my father. And my grandmother, when she was evicted from her land in ’48, coming to Masafer Yatta, growing up her family and raising up her family in, very awareness, to raise awareness of the situation and to continue to be involved in this struggle against occupation.

So my father and my uncles were all in the same path she did, resisting and struggling [against] the occupation. She was supportive of my dad’s choice in Masafer Yatta, in beginning of 2000, to support him in the choice of non-violent resistance against the occupation. Moving forward to election, she was also joining the protest he was organizing, and all those efforts he was doing, and continuing to encourage him. So as well as my dad was the leader, I grew up in this family. And me personally, so I am going on in the same path to continue this resistance and this struggle in the – against occupation. And despite all this aggression, and daily harassment and violent aggression, we live [in] and we face from this occupation, we need to continue to resist and struggle.

Tom 04:51
You were involved in establishing a group called Youth of Sumud. Could you tell us about that group and why you decided specifically to organize as youth in Masafer Yatta?

Sami 05:05
Yeah, I am the coordinator of small local youth group from Masafer Yatta, called Youth of Sumud. Our group was established in 2017. Our group was established after an activity called Sumud Freedom Camp where we all as activists started to go back and to live in [an] evicted Palestinian village in Masafer Yatta called Sarura. But we as youth, we saw like, yani, step by step, like we start to see a few people start to be present. So we start[ed] to have internal discussion that we would like to continue to live [in] this village and to go on with activity of Sumud Freedom Camp: Rehabilitating the caves and rehabilitating the life in the village, encouraging families who are evicted from the village due to settler violence and Israeli military harassment. So to encourage the people who were evicted to come back to their land to their villages.

And since then, we, as we expected, everyone went after some months, so we remained there, we continue with the idea and step by step we called ourselves you know, Youth of Sumud. And also we wanted to practice our activism and our role in our community, led by our decision, by our determination. So we started to say that we are here to, yani, to move on from a new generation perspective. Not to continue following the lead of the – yani – being haunted by the old generation. So we can be independent in our work and in our struggle and really to occupy this youth energy against occupation from you know, yes, youth perspective. Then we started moving on from Sarura to other activities, like with the children and their shepherd accompaniment with international activists, then we started to move on, step by step by step to get involved in more and more with organizing protests and activism.

Tom 07:08
Just about Youth of Sumud – I wanted to ask you about that name, Youth of Sumud, because that, that word is really important in Palestine, but people listening, they probably won’t understand what it means. So why did you choose this name? And what does it mean? What was the concept of Sumud, steadfastness in Palestine?

Sami 07:28
Yeah, good question. Yani – sumud means in Palestine, exactly; sumud means steadfastness, means resilience, means resistance. We have like, it’s a very known word in Palestine, which is – yeah – sumud. And we are also, yani, in Youth of Sumud with strong youth, with very powerful youth. Because yani, especially with what we lived, and we have, what we faced in Sarura, due to occupation, harassment – it wasn’t something easy. We were beaten, were attacked, we were arrested, we were imprisoned in order [for them] to evict us from the place and from the land. And this didn’t succeed. And that is what’s the meaning of Sumud. Despite all this violence, despite all this craziness, you are continu[ing] to resist and never giving up. This is [the] meaning of Sumud.

Tom 08:22
So this is this is a term, which existed before the group, right. It’s a term which is really important for Palestinian resistance.

Sami 08:29
That is very true, yani Palestinian[s] have been doing a lot of great stories of sumud and steadfastness in front of this occupation since more than since ’48. You know, we are continuing until today to [be] steadfast, to struggle, and never giving up.

Tom 08:47
And what were the difficulties that you faced in organizing the youth? Was it easy for people to be involved and what were the obstacles that you encountered?

Sami 08:56
It’s not easy work. Because we are facing so many challenges and threats by the Israeli occupation that since the beginning of creating our group, we were fighting hardly, we had army coming in raiding us in the middle of night. Taking us to interrogations to – in the end of these interrogations – threatening us to stop us from what we are doing. And we [were] still in the beginning of the idea. So in the end of the interrogation, a lot of guys were interrogated, uh even minors because… Okay, [they said] “in the end, why, what you’re doing here is causing to troubles, if you continue to be there, you will be imprisoned, go home, don’t try to stay there, blah, blah, blah.” And so that means there, there was like really, so many challenges and even yani, this is the occupation side, which wanted – don’t want any movement from going on.

And additionally to that we have the also internally which is very difficult sometimes because it is also [that] people have commitments, you need people to be committed 24 hours. But we try and we had some challenges of university and schools to make this continue to happen, because our goal in Sarura [was] to maintain 24 hour presence. So we started really hardly in the beginning, gathering all the guys together, but in the end, we managed to succeed to go out with a proper plan, when someone had lectures in school and others can cover. People stay for nights and some people stay for day[time]. And so in this way we could manage to continue this presence and to continue to the idea to move on with… you know, even sometimes families [are] scared for their children because as I told you, like I was personally ran over by settlers [with a] car. This is also mak[ing] them scared for their kids, but also this is [happening] there to prevent us from really having the group existing. And having the group continuing on working and reaching to where we are now a more and more involved in, in the political situation.

Tom 11:06
When you were run over by the settlers and was that Sarura or the village that you were trying to bring people back to?

Sami 11:13
Yeah it happened in Sarura during our working program, we were organizing, we were building a toilet for a cave which belonged to a family. [That is] like one of the things we are doing is to build and to plant the land and to really recreate a total life in evicted places in order to get, encourage, people to get back [to the villages]. So during this activity: Yeah, I was run over by settlers from Havat Ma’on with the car. It says like targeting also me personally as my role was appearing in the group – so they really wanted to target me, and hit me, so… that’s what they did. I was not able to work for months [because of] that.

Tom 12:04
And you think they targeted you because you were an organiser in the group?

Sami 12:08
Yeah, yeah. For my role and for my you know, I was appearing a lot in my role, and my work there.

Tom 12:16
And have people faced prison also for their organising?

Sami 12:20
For sure, yani, this is something if you’re [an] activist in Palestine, something you will have to experience here, which is prison. Also me personally, during Sarura I was in prison, based on pressure from settlers and the military. There was also my colleagues in the group – most of them also were in prison and [experienced] interrogation because of being and working in Sarura and resisting there. Because the main goal was there to maintain presence in order to stop settlement expansion because Sarura is very close to Havat Ma’on [an illegal settlement], and presence of people there – it is the best way for stopping the settlement from expanding. And so they were trying to all the time do all the ways – prison and whatever – to pull us out of there. And besides, you know, all this, the main goal, we went in that place because there was also settler strange movement around that land and in that area in that period, where we moved us to go there [to Sarura].

Tom 13:23
And the settlers in the area – can you say a little bit about them – that they’re a particularly violent group of settlers, right?

Sami 13:29
Yeah. We have like really very violent settlers in the South Hebron Hills and especially where Sarura and At-Tuwani is, where I come from, that is my village. Sarura and At-Tuwani are next to Havat Ma’on outpost, which is known in the area as one of the most violent [places where] settlers [are] in the area. Which is, they are organizing a lot of activity: violent and criminal activity against us in there. We [can] talk about attacking shepherds with sticks and with stones, or by slingshot, yes slingshots. We’ll talk about burning fields, destroying olive trees, attacking kids who are going to school. We’re talking about stabbing people. A cousin of a colleague in our group was stabbed by settlers from Havat Ma’on from his way, from Tuba to At-Tuwani. We have poisoning of water wells that [is] where we gather water for Masafer Yatta. And these wells in the ground – settlers came and poisoned them, poisoning the fields of the grazing area where our shepherds go. We are well known in Masafer Yatta for grazing and with planting the lands. So the settlers – for grazing, they throw poison wheat seeds and barley seeds, so sheep will eat them and die. And also, we talk about yani, we talked about burning fields where people after a long time harvesting and gathering their fields or crops, they come and burn them or burn the caves, like what happened in Sarura, destroying cars [that belong to] us. I mean, attacking kids – like I said it was last September in 2021. Settlers made a big violent attack in Mufaqara – attacking people, kids. [A] small child, his skull was fractured. We talk about something you can’t really imagine, all these acts done by settlers.

And who help[s] the settlers to continue moving on with these criminal programs? It is the Israeli soldiers and police because they give them the full protection and immunity to do all these criminal attacks. When they don’t face any consequences or judgment for [what they] actually do they just continue to be more and more professional in this, in this violent and criminal attack[s]. This is continu[ing] to confirm to everyone that what’s happening here: cooperation between Israeli settler and military and police in order to kick Palestinians out from their land, ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their land and to, yani, confiscate Palestinian land. What we see in Masafer Yatta, there are settlements, even inside what the military has, what the so called Firing Zone 918, and the settlement and the settlers face no consequences. But the one – the only ones to face consequences is Palestinians. We have a new [Israeli] settlement expanding in the firing zone, they face no consequences, they face no threat of demolition.

So this is confirmed that the main goal of evicting villages in Masafer Yatta under the title of firing zone is to kick us out and then give the land to the settlers. So, big settler colonization, colonial project, of Palestinian land here [is] happening, full cooperation between military and between settlers to kick out Palestinians, to put settlers [here], to delete our identity from this land after evicting us.

Tom 17:02
So you talked about the evictions going on from, and then the demolitions going on inside the firing zone. And just yesterday, there were confiscations of tents and demolitions which happened. And just this year, the court ruled that there was no legal barrier to the eviction of villages inside the firing zone. Is that right?

Sami 17:26
No like I think what’s happening in Masafer Yatta, 40 years ago, more than 40 years ago, Israeli authorities designated the area as a firing zone area to train them Israeli military. This is the excuse they found to target our land, where we live exactly. So all the villages in Masafer Yatta, live inside what is designated as a firing zone area, which we are living here in this land, and for decades went peacefully and with a beautiful life. But then when the Israeli military came and these military rules and with the settlement in the beginning of the ‘80s, as well, the life started turning upside down from the, the ongoing demolishing, from the ongoing harassment, preventing any main services of life to access to us. So the main goal really, between these two, like what’s the wider goal is this: because they wanted to make an environment of forcible transfer – for forcible transfer – for our people to leave the land. This didn’t work. So then in ‘99, there was the first crime of eviction and demolition Masafer Yatta, where the Israeli military trucks and forces started to raid the villages, demolishing homes, transporting people with their properties, and throwing them out from the area close to the city of Yatta in the South Hebron Hills.

When this didn’t work, because they were evicting people, people were coming back in the same day in the same night, digging their caves, again – that the military has demolished – to live inside them. So all the area was evicted in that time. But by the beginning of 2000, because of so many activism and struggle and pressure, there was a decision by the Israeli court, that Palestinians are allowed to go back to their land and to their villages.

But it is a temporary decision, [it] will continue to be a temporary decision until a new decision will come and cancel it. So since 2000 until May 2022, we were in courts, in the Israeli courts, facing and judging and having different court sessions and court hearings in order to… against the eviction, but since the same decision in 2000, came out in May 2022, is the eviction again. So this is confirmed that Israeli – because Palestinian[s] bring the ownership of the land in Masafer Yatta, Palestinians brought all the proofs and testimonies, testimony of the ownership of the land and of the history of living in that place. From shop registrations and other examples. This all was brought to the court, but all this was thrown into the garbage because the head of the court also was a settler. So, and then the decision of eviction was again. Now the eviction decision saying now for eight villages. But that is a big lie – because if eviction takes place for eight villages, it will take place all others that are not mentioned in the decision, because [inaudible]. And as I said, settlement is existing and they are not facing anything.

Yesterday in Masafer Yatta there was the the demolition and confiscation of tents in Khallet a-Daba’ for example. Khallet a-Daba’ is one of the eight villages which now have demolition order for all the structure, and everything there. So now they are using the policy of demolishing stuff step by step, which is they don’t want to make the same way they used in the ‘99 which is carrying people in trucks. they now want to use demolishing, homeless-ing people – making people without a home. I’m not allowed to have any shelter: and then people will go away. That’s that’s the Israeli plan. But on the other hand, we as an activist, we started also trying to organize some other, I dunno, small initiative on the ground now. Because investing in the caves, the renovation of the caves – so there will be plan B if demolition is carried out. But this is not a solution because the eviction will continue to run after our people. So we need a really serious solution for this and which is to stop the eviction, stop the occupation, [and] racist policies against Palestinians.

Because if we succeed to have in Masafer Yatta, then it will succeed to happen in other places, because in this century, where we are living, which is all the international law, international law exists. And international law and [the] international community eyes are open to the situation. Israel is brave to do this because of the hypocrisy of the international law. Maybe Israel will also show that the international law will not do anything. So that is also a big problem; we are facing a war crime in our land, which is considered – this is [considered a] crime by the Fourth Geneva Convention, and we don’t see any really serious acts against this by the international community, which is making us all really upset and angry. And this is confirming the hypocrisy of the international law towards [the] Palestinian cause and Palestinian rights.

Tom 22:20
Can you explain the work you’re doing as Youth of Sumud with people in Masafer Yatta to resist at the moment. And also what would you need from people from outside and in terms of support, to support your resistance?

Sami 22:34
Yeah in Masafer Yatta, yani, we really call upon everyone to come down to Masafer Yatta and spend time in Masafer Yatta. We have really so many different spots now. We have the village of Khallet a-Daba’, we have Sfey school that was also recently demolished, we have schools now [that] will be demolished in Fakheit, in Jinba – we are having a big problem that we also need people to be here on the ground with us to support us, to support our work, to join our work, to resist this occupation to bring to help us to transfer our message from the reality of what we are living on the ground. And to really help us to stop this eviction from happening. We ask everyone abroad to visit, to talk, to contact to his elected person in parliament in the government, to put pressure on them to take act[ion] for Masafer Yatta to put more pressure on the Israeli government to stop this from happening. And do it everyone should get involved on the ground. Beside this, to join BDS [Boycott Divestment Sanctions movement] to put more sanctions. And in Israel, because Israel [is] without facing any sanction without any boycott, Israel will just continue to do whatever it wants without taking into consideration of an international law or an international agreement in this settler colonial project of Palestine that Israel is doing. So we need really immediate act[ions] right now from people to do and to have. And we have really a lot of activities, people can come and help us. They can join us with the protests, they can join us with working programs who are organizing to support our people, to document, to be there to help us to defend when bulldozers come… and I have so many things people can join and participate [in] and we call upon everyone to come here to be here to work, and help us here and resisting this war crime that is happening.

Tom 24:30
Okay, and just a final question like, so you’ve been involved in youth organizing now for five years. And I wonder if you could share some successes of the youth organizing that you’ve done in Masafer Yatta in those years?

Sami 24:45
It is important to be organizing [as] youth because we are living in a community which is always preferr[ing] to be led by old[er] generation, which will not give you the space that you will decide what you want to do, and the way you want to resist, or the way you want to act and anything. So, we want to go out from being all the time linked to this old[er] generation – that we will have our own space. We can – through our collective – take our own decision[s] from youth perspective. And the new generation, with a new vision – not to be stuck to the same vision that [the older generation] have, or anything you want to ask them or to be involved with them. So we took this space. So we have our own decision and what we want to do will not wait, [without] anyone to tell us what to do. We started to do this work because we believe now youth have more energy than [the] old generation. We want to occupy this energy on the field itself. We are really able to handle so many things, really youth has so [much] energy – that’s the main thing we have, so from this point we wanted to do all this activity really more fastly – not to be waiting, and maybe, not tomorrow. No, we take our decision we do stuff now. This is as a first motivation point for me, as a personal level, why [I] wanted this to be led by youth – why this should be all the time by youth. So yeah, I will say that. And we were happy to cooperate with them – with [the] old generation. That in fact is the main point for me, we are happy to work with them to cooperate in things – not to fight, not to be against each other. But also we want to have our own body, our own choice, decision, to take to work our work [and] working space. Because also we want to be independent.

Tom 26:42
Do you work with other youth organizations around Palestine also?

Sami 26:46
Yeah, we started with the Youth of Sumud to [make] other connections with different youth groups, Hebron and Bethlehem and Ramallah, north west Jerusalem, Nablus. We want to started to build like this, networking, and doing different activities together. Like go and do activities and work in north west Jerusalem, invite them to Masafer Yatta, invite them to do activities with children, with activist[s], with youth. It was like a lot of youth exchange activities we have done and we are doing, and doing really good.

Tom 27:18
And in those years of youth organizing can you can you pick out like, have you had some successes, like, are there moments where you think – where you thought – that you’re being effective and successful?

Sami 27:28
Yani we had a lot of yani efforts and things we did. And we are happy that at least we are doing all these efforts towards [resisting the] occupation to support the sumud of our people. And that is something we are happy to say, that we are proud that we manage. And we succeed to do this. Because all our activities we are doing [are] mainly aiming to really continue to support sumud of our people in all levels. I mean, logistically, also with some intellectual lectures, with lawyers – with so many different things of raising awareness, all this stuff, we were very proud of it as a step in the ground. We were very happy and proud of launching [a] campaign like joining [the] olive harvest farmers in different places, in the whole West Bank, against settler violence. In order to continue to encourage people to go to their land, despite all the violence they see. So the people in connection to their land wont be weak. So we want to continue to support it. Even with the violence of the settlers etc., We have a lot of campaigns we have launched online, and we were very proud that we are doing all this work, to raise awareness to ask people to take actions, to defend Masafer Yatta or defund racism and moving on with so many campaigns. And the other thing we have, like we see that the work we are doing is getting [an] audience. Like we started with also a few people listening and watching to what we do, but we see now a lot of people are following us and our work, especially in social media, we now have, what, 7000 followers on our account and this stuff. This also means that we are kind of having our place, our own seat, and our own work, which is – we are very happy and very proud about, and moving on with other activities. And I see now, the recent project of renovation of caves. I’m so happy about it, because we as Youth of Sumud started in 2017 from the caves and now we are continuing with [it]. It’s a heritage; we need to protect it, and we are now with the political situation. We are starting to [with] people – we need to renovate the caves because they are a heritage thing and also for political reason that now if eviction happened, they will be emergency spot[s] where people will take it as a shelter to live inside again. And people were very excited and happy to go back to this one.

Tom 29:53
Well there’s some amazing organizing that has been going on over the years and how many people want to know more about Youth of Sumud and the campaign, the solidarity with Masafer Yatta. You can look at the Save Masafer Yatta website. We’re here volunteering with the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), who supports and works with the people from Youth of Sumud and Masafer Yatta. And you can take a look at our website palsolidarity.org. Is there anything else you wanted to add?

Sami 30:23
Yes, and I’m sorry that I forgot this point, which is thanks for ISM for all the organizing and the work and effort they’re doing, representing the international solidarity, support and solidarity in Palestine. Because something also on a personal level – very, very important – when my dad was attacked and imprisoned in September and jailed, how much the international presence was important as a testimony and as [a] documenter for the attack that happened to my dad, which has saved him from years and years of prison. When the activist from ISM had recorded a video [of] 23 minutes showing the whole incident, when settlers attacked my dad. Even [though] he was [the one] attacked, my dad was in prison. And settlers said my dad attacked them. But the video of the ISM guy saved him from prison for life. And for all the work of defending Masafer Yatta, [that] ISM is doing for all this time – is very important for us and really supporting our work there so much.

We ask everyone to, yeah, to be connected with ISM, to follow and to connect and come here, InshAllah, and to see all of you and to get more involved in resistance here, and in supporting Palestinians.

Tom 31:42
Thank you so much for talking to us.