In this episode, we share an interview with Um Ramadan. We met her at a demonstration outside the district court in Jerusalem in December 2022. Alongside other mothers, she is protesting her son’s imprisonment. In this moving interview, she talks about the conditions her son is kept in and how mother’s are organising to support each other. Please note there are references to suicide and abuse.
The East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah has been an important part of the struggle against colonisation in Palestine. The residents of Sheikh Jarrah are refugees, or descendants of refugees, who were forced from their homes by the ethnic cleansing carried out by Zionist Forces in 1947-9. This ethnic cleansing is known by Palestinians as the Nakba (or catastrophe).
After 1948, East Jerusalem was under Jordanian control – and the Jordanian government struck a deal with the UN to settle Palestinian refugee families who were living in Jordan in Sheikh Jarrah. In 1967 the Israeli military militarily occupied East Jerusalem, and since then the Israeli state and settler movements have been trying to evict the Palestinian residents – both through legal processes and by violence.
Many families have already been forcibly evicted from the neighbourhood, and replaced by settlers. The community has resisted by holding sit ins outside the threatened homes, by mobilising, international solidarity and by building a culture of solidarity.
In 2020 Israeli courts ordered the eviction of more families from Sheikh Jarrah. And in 2021 the harassment and violence against people in Sheikh Jarrah helped trigger an uprising across Palestine.
In 2022 right wing politician Itamar Ben Gvir – the minister of national security – led a mass of settlers to the neighbourhood backed up by cops. The settlers attacked the community as the police looked on. Ben gvir famously shot his gun in the air that day, as Palestinians defended themselves by throwing stones. These kind of provocations are routine in sheikh jarrah – and that’s the context that led to um Ramadans son’s arrest.
We would like to apologise about the sound quality of this interview, due to its impromptu nature and lack of equipment with us! But we wanted Um Ramadan’s story to be shared. A big thank you to Noah for translating.
Links
Transcript:
Introduction 00:00
[Intro music] Hey, welcome to international solidarity movement [translation into Arabic]
Nicole 00:18
Welcome to the International Solidarity Movement podcast. We hope you’ve enjoyed our episodes so far. Today is April 17, which is the Palestinian Prisoners Day. We hope you’ve already listened to our interview with Addameer who are doing incredible work to support Palestinian prisoners. We wanted to share another interview today that has a prison focus. So this is an interview with Um Ramadan, we met her at a demonstration outside the District Court in Jerusalem. And, alongside other mothers, she was protesting her son’s imprisonment. It’s a really moving interview, she talks about the conditions her son is kept in ,and how different mothers are organising together to support each other. And I just want to flag that there are references to suicide and abuse. So for a bit of context the East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah has been an important part of the struggle against colonisation in Palestine, the residents of Sheikh Jarrah are refugees, or descendants of refugees, who were forced from their homes by the ethnic cleansing carried out by Zionist forces in 1947 to 1949, this ethnic cleansing is known by Palestinians as the Nakba, or catastrophe. After 1948, East Jerusalem was under Jordanian control, and the Jordanian government struck a deal through the United Nations to settle Palestinian refugee families who were living in Jordan in Sheikh Jarrah. And then in 1967, the Israeli military occupied East Jerusalem, and since then, the Israeli state and settler movements have been trying to evict the Palestinian residents, both through legal processes and by violence. Many families have already been forcibly evicted from the neighbourhood and replaced by settlers. The community has resisted fiercely, you know, by holding sit-ins outside threatened homes, by mobilising international solidarity, and just building you know, a general culture of solidarity. In 2020, the Israeli courts ordered the eviction of more families from Sheikh Jarrah, and in 2021 the harassment and violence against people in Sheikh Jarrah helped trigger an uprising across Palestine. So yeah, we just wanted to give this context that it’s a real hotbed of struggle. And then in 2022, right wing politician, Ben Gvir, the Minister of National Security led a mass of settlers to the neighbourhood, backed up by police. The settlers attacked the community as the police looked on. And Ben Gvir famously shot his gun in the air that day as Palestinians defended themselves by throwing stones. These kinds of like provocations are routine, and that’s the context that lead to Um Ramadan’s son’s arrest. We’d really like to apologise about the sound quality of the interview. It was kind of like an impromptu thing, and we didn’t have our proper recording equipment with us. We just had to use phones. But we really felt it was important to share her story and share her son’s story. I want to say a big thank you to Noah for translating for us and once again, please find all the resources in the show notes
Um Ramadan 03:12
[Speaks Arabic]
Translation 03:17
Today we had a demonstration against the arrest of the Palestinian children by the Israeli court.
Um Ramadan 03:25
[Speaks Arabic]
Translation 03:34
We went to tell the Israeli courts that what they’re doing with our children is not justice.
Um Ramadan /Noah 03:43
We are the ones who are being attacked [Um Ramadan speaks Arabic], the people who attacked us have been set free
Um Ramadan 03:52
[Speaks Arabic]
Tom 03:58
And we demand that justice should see with both eyes and not just one eye
Um Ramadan 04:12
[Speaks Arabic]
Tom 04:14
They’re saying that that if things continue like this, there will be a popular uprising. Because they’re not being respected by the Israeli authorities.
Um Ramadan 04:28
[Speaks Arabic]
Tom 04:37
The settlers are coming here and throwing rocks on their cars and their houses, and how are they supposed to defend themselves?
Um Ramadan 04:44
[Speaks Arabic]
Tom 04:46
The police and the military were here and they just did nothing. [Um Ramadan speaks Arabic]. So her son saw that there were throwing rocks on them, and he went out into the street [Um Ramadan speaks Arabic].
Um Ramadan 05:02
[Speaks Arabic]
Tom 05:05
So so her son, by himself, went out into the streets and was arrested while 50 people at least were throwing rocks on her house, and they were not arrested.
Um Ramadan 05:24
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 05:29
Okay, so now the Israeli courts are demanding five to eight years imprisonment, which she says is completely unprecedented.
Um Ramadan 05:45
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 05:50
Why is this happening? She says, because the extremists are now the ones who are running the Israeli justice system. And as you know, we were just talking about Ben Gvir, who set up his parliamentary office right here and is now going to be the Minister of Internal Defence.
Um Ramadan 06:10
[Speaks Arabic].
Um Ramadan /Noah 06:32
So her son went through a terrible series of events after he was arrested. He was taken to small cells – very small – where, where he was basically tortured. They didn’t let him sleep, they hit him. She said that he told her things, you know, she couldn’t imagine spending even one day like that but he spent – [how many days?] – 29 days.
Um Ramadan 07:00
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 07:00
Okay, so he’s been in prison now for 11 months, and out of that, 29 days were in these these, these small like, you know, cells- like a holding cell which is basically torture.
Um Ramadan 07:13
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 07:17
And he also tried to commit suicide.
Um Ramadan 07:31
[Speaks Arabic].
Um Ramadan /Noah 07:36
She is saying that this is the same thing [that] happened to everybody [who] was arrested in this area. And then then I said how many people are we talking about? So she said: Well they’re six from this neighborhood, but if you start looking at the nearby neighborhoods as well, then it’s it’s probably much more.
Tom 07:55
How many people live in the neighborhood?Second speaker: First of all, one day, one day it was four of my son[s] [that were] in the jail. Four, in jail [how many people?], about 200. [Nicole – and what are the conditions like in prison]?
Um Ramadan 08:23
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 08:25
Now they’re a little bit better They’re allowed to visit him. But for those 29 days when he was in a holding cell, they couldn’t see him.
Tom 08:45
She says that her son has changed because of these 29 days that he spent – during which they don’t really know what happened to him. It’s clear that he was not given enough, enough food to eat, and that he was beaten, and didn’t have the ability to sleep. And now that she can see him she makes sure to know every single day what it is that’s been happening to him so that she can, you know, somehow try to control this.
Um Ramadan 09:28
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 09:34
She says if they can see the brutality of the Israeli police and soldiers here, right in front of the house. But when they’re by themselves in an area – which isn’t accessible to everybody – she can only you know, she can’t imagine what it is that they actually do.
Another speaker 09:59
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 10:06
Okay, so he says, one of the things that he knows that happened, is that his son was was made to sit with his hands tied behind his back and his eyes covered for about 14 hours. And then he was taken to see a judge with his eyes still covered and then somebody said: Oh, but he hasn’t eaten. So they gave him like, you know, nice food to eat. And then just as he was just about to begin eating, they kicked away the table with all the food.
Nicole 10:43
How old are all the children?
Another speaker 10:45
Now he is 15 years old?
Nicole 10:47
15
Um Ramadan 10:47
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 10:50
Her son was sentenced to 30 months in prison for throwing rocks.
Um Ramadan 10:59
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 11:03
Meanwhile, the settlers who were here throwing rocks were – were not even arrested. I was here at one of these events, they were throwing rocks for about 5 hours.
Um Ramadan 11:15
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 11:17
Her son just celebrated his 18th birthday in prison.
Um Ramadan 11:26
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 11:31
And on the 26th of the month her son will be twenty in jail.
Um Ramadan 11:35
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 11:36
She’s going to throw a party in prison.
Nicole 11:38
How are they organising together, the mothers?
Tom 11:44
[Speaks Arabic].
Um Ramadan 11:49
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 11:51
They meet together, they talk together they go visit their children together, they have a WhatsApp group.
Um Ramadan 11:58
[Speaks Arabic].
Tom 12:01
they have the same pains but still
Um Ramadan 12:03
a little confused I’ve seen that whole ad for has
Translation 12:06
And they have the same pains. They have good relations because they understand each other’s feelings.
Um Ramadan 12:13
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 12:31
Okay yeah there is a bigger group that involves women – mothers from different neighborhoods. And this larger group, they visit together, I think they might have to coordinate their visiting hours. So there is some kind of contact – you know the split between different Palestinian neighborhoods inside Jerusalem is quite strong, and it’s you know, one of the characteristics of the occupation. She is saying that in this country, there are no rights for Palestinian children or women. And they saw on television how a four year old was either arrested or actually was being summoned to the police station. He given a summons… for a four year old. So there is no rights.
Another speaker 13:36
His father when he [went to the] police station he take bamba with him – because he’s a child.
Tom 13:42
And are the prisoners able to organize when they’re in prison? Can they organize together? [Speaks Arabic].
Um Ramadan 13:52
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 13:56
According to what her son says yes, they have some kind of organisation.
Um Ramadan 14:06
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 14:11
She’s saying that even if he has some kind of organization, it’s still prison.
Tom 14:21
Are there things that people – that comrades – can do outside of Palestine in solidarity?
Um Ramadan 15:04
[Speaks Arabic]. [Speaks Arabic].
Translation 15:09
She’s saying this – the occupation is claiming that it’s a democratic country. And you who have now seen the reality – and you see sometimes pictures… And she’s talking about a specific case. Where an older man was beaten in Al-Aqsa for no reason by a policeman. So, she would like these pictures to be spread, and the stories about – you know – the truth of what is happening to be, you know, well known.
Nicole 15:39
Is there anything else you would like to share
Translation 15:43
[Speaks Arabic].
Um Ramadan 15:48
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 15:53
They demand that their human rights be respected and you know, take shape in you know reality here.
Nicole 16:05
When will their children be sentenced?
Um Ramadan 16:10
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 16:16
Her son will be sentenced on the eighth of January
Um Ramadan 16:22
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 16:23
And they’re asking for five to eight years in prison.
Um Ramadan 16:30
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 16:32
So now he’s 20, and he might be out when he’s 28.
Um Ramadan 16:35
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 16:35
She’s saying, you know when he went in he was, you know, just a child playing in the neighborhood and now he’s gonna come out and he’s gonna be like you know a middle aged man. And she has no idea what, you know, what he’s going to have in his head when he comes out.
Um Ramadan 16:43
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 16:43
She’s saying, you know when he went in he was, you know, just a child playing in the neighborhood and now he’s gonna come out and he’s gonna be like you know a middle aged man. And she has no idea what, you know, what he’s going to have in his head when he comes out.
Um Ramadan 17:05
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 17:06
Maybe now he’s making plans, but she has no idea what he’s making plans for.
Tom 17:12
[Speaks Arabic].
Translation 17:17
Maybe now he’s making plans. And she has no idea what he’s making plans for.
Tom 17:27
thank you so much. We hope for freedom for all of them, all of the prisoners