8 December 2023 | International Solidarity Movement | Masafer Yatta, Occupied West Bank
In the morning of December 8th, around50 soldiers/settlers, most of whom wore masks, invaded the Palestinian village of Khallet Al-Dabaa, in Masafer Yatta, and violently attacked 5 people. The aggressors abducted Salah, a Palestinian man, father of 4 young children. They also ransacked and seriously damaged some houses and the elementary school of the village, destroying doors, windows and furniture. The soldiers/settlers stole 6000 shekels ($1600), and various property such as power drills, jackets, flashlights, binoculars. They also tore bags of food, stepped on bread and vegetables.
The soldiers/settlers then blocked the road to a nearby village and prevented an ambulance from reaching a diabetic 84-year-old Palestinian who needed urgent medical attention.
The 84-year-old Palestinian man passed out during the confrontation, while the head of the village council, Muhammad Rabai, who had called the ambulance, was arrested by the Israeli soldiers/settlers.
It was unclear whether the aggressors, who arrived in civilian vehicles, were settlers, Israeli army soldiers, or a group composed of both.
Palestinians in Masafer Yatta have been reporting that it is currently almost impossible to distinguish between army and groups of settlers, as the latter roam the area heavily armed, wearing Israeli army uniforms and balaklavas, and accompanied by soldiers.
During the attack, eyewitnesses recognized a particularly violent settler, going by the name of Eitan Yardeni, who resides in the illegal Israeli outpost of Havat Ma’on.
Colonial attacks and ethnic cleansing in Masafer Yatta
In the 1980s, Israeli authorities designated a part of Masafer Yatta as ’Firing Zone 918’, a closed military zone. This zone includes the land where Khallet Al-Dabaa is located. Since this declaration, residents have been at risk of forced eviction, house demolitions, and forcible transfer. One of the houses that was damaged during the December 8th attack has been demolished and rebuilt 5 times in the past.
According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), around 1,150 Palestinians lived in the firing zone in 2022, including 569 children.
In the past weeks, residents of Masafer Yatta have reported violent and continuous raids by armed settlers and Israeli soldiers, who assault and abduct Palestinians, destroy critical infrastrcutre in the villages such as power grids and water tanks, and steal property and livestock.
Palestinians have also been left homeless following demolitions by army bulldozers in several villages including Deirat, Umm Lasafa and Umm Qissa.
In October, Palestinians from the village of Khirbet Zanuta were forcibly displaced after armed settlers threatened them that they had 24 hours to leave their homes, before the settlers would come back and “kill everyone”.
A house in Khallet Al-Dabaa in a picture from August 2023 (top) and immediately after the attack (down). Settlers destroyed a wall that was decorated with two murales: “Where Will I Sleep” and “Free Palestine from the River to the Sea”
In Episode Ten of our podcast we speak to Jaber from the village of Khallet al-Daba’, in Masafer Yatta, in the South Hebron Hills.
The Israeli supreme court has ordered the destruction of several villages in Masafer Yatta, and the occupation wants to destroy Khallet al-Daba’ first. The residents of Khallet al-Daba’ remain steadfast in the face of the demolitions, and are calling for international volunteers to come to the village and support them.
If you would like an explanation of the terms used in this podcast, you can find a useful glossary on pages 140-154 of Shoal Collective’s Ebook
Transcript
Introduction 0:00
Hey, welcome to international solidarity movement podcast [translation in Arabic]
Tom 0:18
Hey, and welcome to Episode ten of the International Solidarity Movement podcast. My name is Tom and in this episode we talk to Jabba from the village of Khallet al-Daba’ in Masafer Yatta in the south Hebron hills, the village of Khallet al-Daba’ is under threat of complete destruction by the Israeli military. And residents have asked the International Solidarity Movement and other supporters to maintain a presence in the village and support the villagers steadfastness in the face of the occupier. Now, I hand over to Jabba to tell us why it’s urgent that the people of Khallet al-Daba’ receive our support and solidarity. You can find out more by visiting the Save Masafer website. You can find links to this website and to other useful websites about Masafer Yatta in the show notes for this show.
Tom 1:10
Okay, so we’re here with with Jabba from the village of Khallet al-Daba’. and it’s a village where [the] International Solidarity Movement has been staying in the recent months because of the threat of demolition and eviction of the village by Israeli forces. And, yeah, so I just want to – we just wanted to hear, first of all, like, what it was like, well. Listeners [who are] listening to the podcast outside of Palestine won’t know what it’s like in Khallet al-Daba’. So maybe you could describe the village – describe growing up here in the village – you know, give people an idea of what Khallet al-Daba’ is like.
Jaber 1:50
Arabic & fades out
Translation 1:56
So as we know, like most of Palestine, people in Palestine know the situation in Khallet al-Daba’ and Masafer Yatta that’s facing the forced eviction from the Israeli occupation. And Khallet al-Daba’, like other villages in Masafer Yatta is under the threat of being evicted and demolished. They have faced many demolitions since 2018. And even [with] all these threats around them, they will not stop – they will not ever give up against these violations. And even like, before two days [ago], there was a confiscation of their tents, the solidarity tents of the international presence, and the attacks on [Jabba] and his brother – that he was like having a broken leg in a demolition, before that – and for today also they also attacked him with the same injury so they were facing like the pain together. And but at the end they will not stop all of this – like they will not give up, [their] steadfastness against this occupation.
Tom 3:02
Can you tell us about what it’s like day to day in Khallet al-Daba’ not knowing whether the the army will come or the settlers will come… the pressures that the occupation and the settlements put on the daily life here?
Jaber 3:20
Arabic & fades out
Translation 3:26
So this is the reality – that all of this pressure [is] on them every day and as you said, like, no one can stop the Israeli occupation of like his harassment of the human rights. Even like the people outside – like the countries that are against the violation of the human rights – like even they cannot stop the occupation from doing all of these violations. And also the new government that came and that pushed also a lot on the Palestinians in order you know, to let them suffer and to you know, to leave their lands. As I said, okay, all of these things they do around us for the pressure – but that will never make us weak and we will continue and he’s asking for an international presence in here in the village, in order even to make for the demolition …or like if there is a demolition in a day, and there’s like a presence international and Palestinian, so he’d like it to be a kind of hard thing for the Israeli forces in order to demolition or to confiscate something. So these things can help – as like a good example, two days ago when the Israeli forces came and confiscated the tents there was no numbers [of volunteers] and like in the easy way they just take everything and they go. And he was even not expecting that much easy that they will take everything where no one can stop them.
Tom 4:49
And yeah, just for context, so right now [as of December 2022] the number of international volunteers for example is quite small. But does he think that – that we could do more if there were larger numbers of people? Would he like to see more people coming?
Jabba 5:11
Arabic & fades out
Translation 5:15
So for sure the international presence would help and with the more international volunteers would be more important as you said like he understands the situation that now in the end of the year and there is Christmas and most of the people cannot be here, everyone you need to go for some time home. And this is like the time for occupation to do his crimes. Because no social media can go out with the [volunteers] to know, and to like spread awareness. So this is like the time for them to push on the Palestinians here. And even though they have talked with many organisations to have more volunteers, but like unfortunately, like, there is no presence yet from the other organisation[s].
Tom 5:57
And we’re hoping that the listeners to this podcast will share the information about what’s happening here with their comrades and, and maybe hearing the voices of people here will inspire people to come. I wanted to ask about – you talked about steadfastness on the land, and this form of resistance, which is being connected to the land and remaining on the land, despite all of the pressures. Could you talk about that? And also, you know, whether you feel a particular connection to this area – to the natural landscape?
Jaber 6:31
Arabic & fades out
Translation 6:37
So Khallet al-Daba’ – the Israeli DCO [District Coordinating Office – part of the infrastructure of the occupation created by the Oslo agreement] knows and we have all of the [legal] proofs that it [belongs to] the Palestinians. And they are, you know, creating policies in order to evacuate the people and steal the lands and even transfer the settlers to stay here. So they have many plans. And he said, like, their plans will lose because it’s our land. And like, even they can demolish, but they will not steal our hope and we’ll not go out from the land. They will demolish our homes, but we will not go out of the land. And okay, they are like pushing the people and how they can do, but at the end, [the Palestinians] can stay and steadfast against the occupation. And because you know, the view of the people, how they will respond against all of these violations that happen around them and all these pressures, because the people also, you know, they just have these lands, where afterwards can they go? Because afterwards if they will be evicted, they will be refugees after this. So they didn’t have just like this piece of land to stay and they own this land. So no other choices to go out or [anything but] just to resist this occupation… So they defend the land that belongs to them, and they want to stay on it, there is no other choices, as you say.
Tom 8:02
And the Israeli state strategy in the area is not only about Khallet al-Daba’, it’s also about the whole area of Masafer Yatta. So do you think that if the Israeli state is successful here in Khallet al-Daba’ and – of course we hear that the people here will resist and will not allow that to happen – but the state will also attempt to evict other communities here in Masafer Yatta?
Jaber 8:29
Arabic & fades out
Translation 8:39
So they have decisions to evict other villages in Masafer Yatta. But like, as you said, like they have the power to evict, and to break, and to demolish and to destroy, but they didn’t have the power to take the people out of their lands.
Tom 8:54
Thank you very much. And yeah, if people want to learn about how to get involved, people can have a look at the Save Masafer Yatta website, and also palsolidarity.org, the website of the International Solidarity Movement – and check out the International Solidarity Movement on social media too. But yeah, thank you very much. Is there anything else that you’d like to say about the situation here?
Jaber 9:21
Translation to Arabic and fade out
Translation 9:36
So what he said like okay, Khallet al-Daba’ is the first village that’s going to be evicted from the decision that the court gave on the 28th of December. So he spoke about the international presence about like how it was the example – [the last time where] they confiscated the tent. That was like even a simple thing, but when they will demolish a house it will be [much] worse, for them it will be a disaster, because it’s like – a house is really hard to rebuild again. So like given the plans – how to be an international presence here – to be in the village. Because if you would be out of the place that will be evicted, it will to be hard for you to come in. For example, like the last demolition that was here when they confiscated, the first thing is they didn’t see the international presence and [therefore] that no one is taping, [so] they just started to attack. When like we came in and arrived to the place, they start you know with a with a simple thing to you know, divide the people to not reach their machines or to not reach the people who are confiscating. So this [volunteer presence is] how to effect them to not use violence against the Palestinians.
In the fifth episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast we are joined in the village of At-Tuwani by two ISM volunteers – Herbie and Maria – who both spent several months volunteering as internationalists in Palestine. They tell us from a personal perspective what it’s like to be an international volunteer in Palestine, and especially in the South Hebron Hills. ISM is focusing it’s presence here because of to the ongoing demolitions of Palestinian homes and infrastructure by the Israeli occupation.
We ask Herbie and Maria what brought them to Palestine, what they would say to people who are thinking of joining ISM but aren’t sure yet, and also what it’s been like witnessing some of the violence of the occupation.
Hey, welcome to international solidarity movement podcast [followed by Arabic translation]
Hazel 00:19
azeazeaHello and welcome to the fifth episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast. Today we are joined in the village of At-Tuwani by two ISM volunteers – Herbie and Maria – who both spent several months volunteering as internationalists in Palestine. they tell us from a personal perspective what it’s like to be an international volunteer in Palestine, and especially in the South Hebron Hills, where ISM is focusing it’s presence, due to the ongoing demolitions of Palestinian homes and infrastructure by the Israeli occupation. We touch on what brought them to Palestine, what they would say to people who are thinking of joining ISM but aren’t sure yet, and also what it’s been like witnessing some of the violence of the occupation. At the end of the interview, Herbie and Maria discuss the culpability of Western states in the ongoing colonisation of Palestine and – in opposition to this – how we can directly take action to stand with and struggle alongside the Palestinian people in their fight for autonomy and freedom.
Nicole 01:18
So we’re really happy to be joined by two volunteers from ISM, the International Solidarity Movement, who have been in Palestine for several months this year at different points. And we’re going to be asking them some questions about their experiences here, some of the challenges, things they’ve learned, and also enjoyed since they’ve been here. But yeah, if you’d like to introduce yourself, that would be amazing.
Maria 01:39
Hi, everyone. So I’m Maria, and yeah, I’ve been, I’m almost at the end of my visa. So I’ve been here for three months now. And I was here a month over the Summer.
Herbie 01:51
Hi, everyone, I’m Herbie, I’ve been here for nearly two months now. And I’ve got about another month left of my visa.
Nicole 01:59
Can you share a little bit about how your experiences have been here?
Maria 02:02
Yeah. So I think the situation in general is very challenging on the ground. I was here for the first time this summer. And it was quite mind blowing. I’ve been campaigning for Palestine in the UK. But I think when you see things on the ground, and you live them, and you experience them, and you talk to people, it’s… it’s completely different. I think you get used to like the rhythm quite quickly. But yeah, I think overall it has been amazing. I’ve met lots of very, very interesting people. The Palestinian activists are great. The international activists are all amazing. And we’ve also met lots of Israeli activists, which are really nice. So I think generally, like very recommended experience and very positive, but yeah, it’s, it’s challenging. And ISM is very often on the first line. So you are, yeah, very often like, in [a] conflict situation. And some of them can be very challenging, but I think you develop as a person as well. So yeah, positive in general.
Nicole 03:04
What’s your kind of like day to day, what would like an average day look like here?
Herbie 03:09
I mean, to be honest, like, every day is different. And it’s very dependent on where we are. At the minute, we’re in Masafer Yatta. And we’re kind of based in a couple of different villages. In one of them, we do the like morning and afternoon school run, because some of the children have to walk through a settlement, Havat Ma’on – sorry, [it’s] an illegal outpost – to get to school, and they sometimes get attacked by settlers. So they have a military escort. And then we are also there waiting for them on the other side, to make sure they’ve arrived safely. But things often pop up very unexpectedly – like you, you can never predict what’s going to happen in a day. For example, on Monday, everything was very lrelaxed. I, like, didn’t have a lot to do. And then the next day, I was at three different demolitions in different villages in Masafer Yatta. And there was also a fourth demolition, and then I went to another village to visit some children whose school was recently demolished. So it varies a lot.
Nicole 04:26
We’ve been interviewing in some of the villagers we hear about the demolitions and their experiences, but could you share a little bit about what your – your role is, while that’s happening, and what you’ve observed?
Herbie 04:36
Yeah, so I suppose the most important role for us and and what the locals want is that we’re there to document what’s happening. Because we’re like, in the area, we can, we’re either like, already living in that village, or we can get there very quickly. We can get there like, a lot faster than, you know, the UN can or anyone else. So we’re there to like, document the whole thing so that the world can hear about what’s happening otherwise. You know, most people would just never know that these people’s homes and villages are being destroyed. In an ideal world, if there was enough of us here, then we could take direct action to actively resist the demolitions for example, like going on the diggers, blocking vehicles, surrounding the house. But unfortunately, since lockdown there is like a very low number of volunteers here. And it’s just not safe or effective for us to try to do those things if we don’t have the numbers for it. So yeah, it’s quite, it’s quite difficult just standing there filming instead of trying to resist it happening. Another thing we can do is try to de-arrest Palestinians if they’re being taken by the police.
Nicole 06:03
And I know like some people in the UK that have considered coming – like maybe they’re nervous because they don’t know what to expect or they have health issues. They don’t feel like they can do it. Or like mental health challenges… Like do you feel like it is accessible for everyone here or do you feel like there are different roles people can do, or do you think it has been quite kind of physically demanding, the work here? Like what’s the kind of, yeah, experiences in terms of like your own health and your own well being.
Maria 06:29
Yeah I think as an organization it is quite wide. And there are roles for everyone. And you can show solidarity in lots of different ways, even only just living in a village and like showing people that, you know, internationals are there, and they’re aware of the situation. And they are filming, if needed, then that gives Palestinians strength and like, is a push for them to continue the fight. If you feel like physically able, then there is of course, like more challenging – physically challenging – work to do. But like, it’s, it’s nothing crazy. And we’ve got media roles, international coordinator roles. So yeah I think the good thing of ISM is that everyone, yeah, so the good thing of ISM is that like everyone can participate in the capacity that they feel they can. So if you want to be more based in the flats, or like in house in a village, you can do that. Again, if you feel like being in the front line, and like, put yourself more at risk, you can also do that. So it’s really up to the person. Mentally it is a challenging situation, but you will always, always have support from people on the ground. So I think it’s, I think it’s generally accessible to most people.amar
Herbie 07:47
Yeah, I would, I would agree that like the ISM will, like, try and accommodate for people’s health needs. But I do think it is important to consider that like, it is a very mentally challenging situation. I’m definitely someone who’s like struggled with my mental health. And I really had to think hard about whether I was like mentally stable enough to deal with this context. And it has been a challenge. And I think it’s also really important to look after yourself whenever you go home as well, because I think also, although being here is difficult, I think also leaving and going back to ‘normality’, and having to process everything is – can be quite difficult for people. And I think it’s also important to consider that like, a lot of the work here is quite physical, like we do a lot of like, walking from village to village, we don’t have – we can’t always get a lift to places. There is like, you know, like, yeah, physical work to do, as well. And at demos you might have to run if there’s like, gunfire and things. So, yeah, it is accessible to different people’s needs. But it is also important to like consider what you’re able to do before coming. And, like, not put yourself in dangerous situations.
Nicole 09:18
A lot of people will see Palestine on the news. And yeah, like, for someone that’s never been here before, like I think, it does feel like extremely intimidating. Of, “oh my god, am I gonna get shot? Am I gonna witness someone else getting shot?” Like, it’s really got this kind of like, I mean, it is a conflict zone, right? But I think it’s been very different being here and seeing the kind of normality in the day to day things, even though everyone is like, relentlessly affected by the occupation. And it kind of defines everyone’s lives. I just wondered like, how it’s been for you in terms of violence and like, you don’t have to disclose what you don’t feel comfortable with but, like, yeah, how has it felt being here and seeing the occupation and how it affects people?
Maria 10:01
For me, that has been a bit challenging. I think, especially over the summer, I’ve been to a couple of demos where two kids were shot, and they died. So we’ve been to funerals as well. And like, the funerals are, like a whole experience here. Because there are like, thousands of people that attend and, you know, it’s like, sort of a national mourning. So it’s a very intense experience. I don’t know if that’s the right, like- [it’s] very beautiful on one side in the sense that there are all these communities that come together, and you know, like mourning the martyrs. But yeah, I mean, in terms of violence, you might experience some here and witness some and that’s very hard. As I say. So seeing like people getting shot or like seeing settlers’ violence.
We’ve ended up in a couple of situations where we thought that we’re gonna get injured, then that didn’t happen. But yeah, I think, again, ISM tries to cover this situation – there are a lot of different lines. It’s then up to the volunteer if they want to go, if they want to participate, and things like that. Especially like demonstrations this summer, they were very intense. I was here when they – the two or three days that they bombed Gaza. So like they were doing demonstration here in the West Bank and those like, they were quite tough and they were, like, repressed horribly, by the IOF [Israeli Occupation Forces]. So that was harsh. And I think in general, like I think as Herbie said, the situation can kick off anytime, so… and soldiers and settlers don’t like to see international[s] filming and being here. So you often are the targets of of soldiers – like not in a physical way, but you know, like them trying to scare you, or like making you leave. So you kind of need to be mentally prepared for that sort of violence as well.
Nicole 11:54
I think I’ve been very – not surprised here, but people have really been like, “oh, we need internationals to talk about this, we need pressure, like… things are getting worse, because there needs to be more pressure from the international community”. And I think maybe I hadn’t come previously in my life because of, I guess, okay, like, you know, there’s a lot of language around like white saviourism, or people traveling abroad when there’s like, oppression in the UK, you know, like the prison system or racism or how like refugees and migrants are treated in the UK and stuff. So I think I’ve never been like a natural internationalist, if that makes sense. But I’m – it’s kind of very interestingly, like, massively made an impression on me that people seem so welcoming, like just buying us coffees on the street, or, you know, like sweetcorn from a stand or just people – everyone’s interested in us and asking questions and people are like, “thank you for coming.” And there seems to be this like amazing, like openness and hospitality. I just wondered if you had any kind of thoughts about that. Maybe someone is listening, and they’re like, “Oh, I feel weird about going”, or, like, has that stuff come up for you?
Herbie 13:01
Yeah, the whole like, white savior thing is definitely something that I was quite worried about. You know, if that if you think that you’re going to come here and save people and free Palestine, like that is very much not the case. You’re, you’re here to learn from the people and be led by them and show solidarity with them. And yeah. So it is important to think about your intentions for coming for sure. But my experience of being here, as you said, like everyone is, like, so welcoming. And I think just grateful that we’re here because you know, there is just such a lack of coverage of what is really happening here. So it’s so important for us to be here and to see the reality on the ground and to go home and share that with people.
Maria 13:52
Yeah, completely agree. And ISM is 100% Palestinian led. We’re non-violent, of course. But we would never ever take the initiative of doing anything if the Palestinians around us are not – like we’ve not consulted them before. So that’s an important point. And yeah, I think as Herbie was saying, like, we’re not saviours. But I think the Palestinians understand how isolated they are outside this… the situation on the ground, and like in Western countries, and whatever. And because like, Israel has all these ties with like Western countries and countries outside, I think they need this sort of connection with the outside world. So it’s, yeah, it’s not a matter of us coming here and being saviours, but more like documenting in, and then try to like, lobby and do diplomacy when we’re back home.
Nicole 14:40
Amazing. What was the trigger for coming here? Like what inspired you to join? Obviously, there’s lots of places you could have gone or things you could have done, like, what was it that kind of called you here?
Maria 14:49
So I’ve been campaigning for Palestine in the UK, quite a lot. It’s something that I’ve been knowing about, lately shap[ing] my life, but like, I don’t know, I just feel that this is so much dependent on like behaviors of Western countries, and we can actively do something to stop what’s happening here. So that made me like more and more involved back home. And then I just thought that it would have been good to actually come and see the situation on the ground. And this, for me, is the first time that I find myself in a situation like this or like in a conflict area, and like having to deal with soldiers or this violence. So it’s been an interesting growth. But yeah, I think knowing things from outside… it just fed naturally then to come and see things on the ground. But yeah, um, first time that I’m in like this sort of situation.
Herbie 15:39
Yeah, that’s, like, coming here has been, like, a long time coming for me. So I was like, very much raised as a Zionist. My, like, most of my family are Israeli. And I’ve had to do a lot of like unlearning. And yeah, finding out the truth about the situation here. And yeah, I think, I mean, obviously, I want to be here to show solidarity with Palestinians, but also like to, like, see, for myself, to be able to, like, communicate with my family and like, try and explain to them what’s really happening here because like, although some of them are sympathetic to the cause, they’re very inactive. And it’s, it’s very easy for them to just like, live their lives, sort of ignoring what is happening just like a few miles away from them. And yeah, I want to try and show them what’s really going on and hopefully inspire them to – and empower them to – actually stand in solidarity with Palestinians. And yeah, I think also as a Jewish person, it’s particularly important to, for me to – I guess I have, there’s definitely guilt there. And I feel like I almost need to like show that not all Jewish people are Zionists.
Nicole 16:55
Yeah like a final question, I guess is, what would you say to someone who’s maybe like, on the fence about coming, like thinking about it, maybe they’re saving up for it, but they’re just not quite sure whether to come on up. And you know, there’s only a handful of us here. And I know from friends, they’ve talked about this history of ISM, where there was like hundreds of people here all over the West Bank doing different things. And it’s quite – like you said at the beginning with the pandemic, it’s really affected the amount of people coming. So, obviously, you know, we’re hoping with this podcast that people will listen, and that will inspire them to join ISM here, but yeah, what would you say to anyone that was considering it, but not quite sure yet?
Maria 17:32
Yeah. I mean, I guess it’s individual cases. But I would generally encourage people to come. It’s, even though it’s a tough experience, but you grow a lot as a person. And there’s so much to learn from people here on the ground. And I think just seeing things with your own eyes is so much different than like reading or listening to stories. And yeah, like Palestinians are absolutely amazing. And there’s lots of support on the ground. And yeah, we’re saying like, there are challenges there, like people should think about so again, depends on individual situation. But yeah, I think just think that you will never be forced to do things or to be in situation where you don’t want to be in. So if you want to start with like a lighter approach and just understanding the situation. There will be room to do that and maybe just go around and talk to families like without necessarily being involved in maybe [a] conflict situation, although that might happen. I mean, it is at risk that you need to consider. But I think in general, it’s been such a like eye opening experience. That yeah, I cannot think of one reason not to come here.
Herbie 18:43
Yeah, coming here for me was like such a daunting challenge. But one that I like… I’m 100% so glad that I made. I think that if you’re like, unsure and you probably have like a lot of questions and uncertainties, like you can get in touch with ISM by email and attend a training and they’ll answer all of the questions that you have. Yeah, as Maria said, like, it’s just I mean, for me, it’s like definitely been like a life changing experience in a good way. And yeah, you’re stronger than you think you are. And you can, like, you know, I think the Palestinian people are incredibly resilient and face these things every day. And I think we are in a very privileged position to be able to like, come here and witness this and then go back home. And I think you won’t regret coming.
In episode two of our podcast we speak to Gassim Hamad Tahan from the village of Mufagara, in Masafer Yatta, in the South Hebron Hills.
Gassim told us how the experience he had growing up is different to those of his children and grandchildren, and about his dedication to steadfastly staying on the land, despite violent attacks by settlers, and a colonial army intent on evicting Palestinians from the area.
(you can also see this by clicking transcript in the player above)
Length: 26:29
Introduction 00:01
Hey, welcome to International Solidarity Movement podcast [followed by Arabic translation]
Hazel 00:18
Hello and welcome to the second episode of the International Solidarity Movement podcast. My name’s Hazel and I’m happy to be joining you today. So this interview is with Gassim Hamad Tahan, who is fellahin – which is basically translatable to being a land worker, a peasant, or a traditional farmer – in the village of Mufagara, in Masafer Yatta, in the South Hebron Hills. We spent some time in Mufaqara as part of ISM’s work to be a presence in case of demolitions or attack by the occupying forces. We got to join in with some of the traditional work Gassim and his family do day to day, which involves looking after a herd of goats, donkeys, chickens, and other animals, building, as well as being shown how to bake sweets by the younger people in the family. We recorded this episode sat in Gassim’s family home. Some of the children can be heard in the background at different points whispering and bringing tea, and we also left Gassim’s full answers to our questions in Arabic in the podcast, so that English and Arabic speakers can listen. The valleys and hills of Massafer Yatta were ruled a closed military zone called ‘Firing Zone 918’ in the 1980s. This is an Israeli state ruling that claimed the area was supposedly ‘uninhabited’, and therefore can be used for the occupying force’s military practice, despite the fact Palestinians have been living and working in the region for many, many generations with traditional ways of life, like living in caves, shepherding, and subsistence farming, sometimes semi-nomadically. The occupying state has violently tried to force families out of the area for decades. This has been done through legal rulings in the courts, supporting settler violence and settlement expansion, and by carrying out demolitions of Palestinian homes and property. Now the residents of the firing zone are under a renewed, imminent threat of eviction. Gassim told us how the experience he had growing up is different to those of his children and grandchildren, and about his dedication to steadfastly staying on the land. Today we’re in the village Mufagara which is in Masafer Yatta in the Firing Zone 918 and we’re interviewing Gassim Hamad Tahan about his experiences living under the occupation and the resistance. So yeah, thank you very much for joining us. I’m just gonna pass over and ask you to just introduce yourself and your family and maybe the history of the village? And just say a bit day to day like what it’s like living here?
Gassim 02:44
[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]
Translation 02:51
His name is Gassim Hamad Tahan from Mufagara village. What his daily life [is] here, it’s really about fearing and like scary day, like in any moment he is feeling that he could be killed or arrested. So fears and his worries are everyday in his heart and about his small children his sons and about his house. So like from all of the sides that his life is like surrounded of fear and worries. Like before the eighties, before even the occupation came to the Massafer Yatta area, it was like a good life, a safe life, like really having a good life with like the family, there was no threats on them so like he says that all his life is surrounded by worries and fear from [being] expelled evicted, killed or arrested even.
Gassim 04:42
And is it possible for you to say a bit more about what it’s like day to day? He’s felaheen, so he’s like a farmer who’s living with the land. Is it possible to talk a bit about that connection with the land and maybe how it has been in the past and also how it is now. But what does the land like mean for him? [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]
Translation 07:12
His life as a farmer born before the occupation arrived and the settlers and everything else that happened. They were having a very good life, like, going with their sheep everywhere no one can prevent them to reach their land. They plough the land, farm it and harvest it, so they were like really having a simple life, living in caves and some tents and some like – what was in the past, there was nothing like services that like came to them. So after the occupation arrived, the confiscating of the land, stopping the people to reach their land, and even the settler harassment on the farmers and also the shepherds – they were killing the sheep, they were like shepherding with the sheep when settlers came and killed some of the sheep, and you know threatening them. So they started like, it was really something that scared them and prevent them to go, because they will risk their life for that.
So like he was asking like for all of the countries to stand with them, because they are simple farmers and they want to have their simple life. They want to live as the settler living in the illegal outpost that was established in the Palestinian land, that have all of the human services – they want to live like them. Not like if you want to go – if you want to build a simple tent to live in, like to go out from the cave, and to live in a simple house, or a tent, they will immediately demolish it and confiscated it. So he ask just for like a simple life, safe with no threats. I want to ask him also about what is his connection with the land.
Gassim 09:01
[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]
Translation 09:25
So his land, like he used to think that cannot like lost it. So he just take it from his grandfather and his grandfather took it from his parents also. This like the land has come to him now, from his father, so now he’s like, he has the connection between him and the land, that he cannot like leave it. And he can pay any price in order to not to like leave his land. And even if he would go back to live in the caves, and if there is any threats on him, he will just stay on his land because there is no other way to go.
Hazel 10:03
So we also mentioned that this is a firing zone, and I was wondering if you could explain a bit about what that means. Because the people who are listening will be coming internationally they won’t necessarily know what are the conditions, what legally does it mean, and what does it really mean for the people living here? So if you can explain a bit about that it would be amazing
Translation 10:42
Since the ‘67, when the Israeli occupation first occupied the West Bank, and until it reached Masafer Yatta in the 80s, they announced Masafer Yatta as a closed military zone. And from this, like they used this excuse to, to steal more land and expand more settlements. And settlers are in, in order to – as one of the tools that the occupation uses to harass the Palestinians and make them feel, like, scared and fear to lose their lands.
So since the you know, these like, policy that, you know, they’ve announced Masafer Yatta as a closed military zone, and there are people who’s living in this area, and they [the Israeli occupation] didn’t have the right even to announce [the military zone as uninhabited] because there are the people who are living here. And this is a threat on the people to be killed. Because this is a very dangerous thing on the people. So this like, what they announced as a closed military zone, is an excuse in order to evacuate the Palestinians from their lands, from their villages – from their own villages. He’s like, even imagine that he’s saying that, that the village is now in 2022. And until now, there is the fighting and the eviction, you know. This is like we want to imagine the future could be a good future, not a bad future. So he just wants to have days that are like those in the past, there is no occupation, no harassment, no threats, nothing.
So he’s like, just hoping for all of these violations to stop, and for the Israeli occupation forces to go out, and take the settlers and the settlements – to take them out. And this what he means, you know, I just – he mentioned something and I just mentioned from me just to give them the real idea.
Hazel 15:09
So is it possible to say a bit more about like, if you remember before the Firing Zone, what it was like growing up here, and could you expand a bit more on what the conditions were like how it felt in those times?
Gassim 15:21
[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic
Translation 16:03
So he was born in Mufagara village and his beautiful moment in his life was when he was a child because there was no fear. Nothing to care about. Life is like funny. You go to study in Yatta walking like one hour and back. And this shows how in the past everything was – you can go wherever you want. wherever you can go, and your parents will not be worried about you, because there is nothing or any threats on you. So, he said like, these are the best days that I have lived in. Now, today like, after he has grown up and all of these threats came and all of the occupation started to harass the Palestinians.
Even you know, now that his children now they are studying in At-Tuwani village, and even though the distance between here and At-Tuwani is just one kilometer. And they send their children in the morning and you know, they feel the fears and worries about them. You know, they just count to ten to take them to the school and to come back, because there is no safety, there is settlers – they can attack them or they have threats. And with your children you cannot like put them anywhere. So like he said like there’s a very big distance between the past and today.
Hazel 18:18
Is it possible to just say like how many children live in the village and you know what it’s like for them growing up here? We’ve met a lot of the kids and they’re really amazing, and very funny, and very friendly, they’ve really welcomed us as guests very very well, and I really thank them for that. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about and what it might be like for them.
Gassim 18:54
[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic
Translation 19:27
So he said like these children [are] born under the risk and under the occupation. And even they said when we want to walk them to school sometimes, they send the police sometimes, because maybe the settler will meet them in the road and they will attack them. So they used to go with them to take them to school and back. So their like routine – these children like while they’re playing up there, when they see an army or settler, he just run[s] to his father and he says ‘there’s army or settlers, maybe they will do [something to] us, they will attack us’. He says ‘no, just don’t worry’.
So the last thing that I want to add to what is happening. And really, as you can say a massacre here, that very big huge number of settlers from the illegal outposts of Havat Ma’on and Avigail, they gathered and they attacked this village, brutally. And the army were with them, even they were like saving them, you know, and protecting them. They were having guns, they were throwing stones on the houses and there was one child that was injured on his head. He was sleeping and there was one big stone it was it was like [thrown on] his head. So he was hospitalised.
And even then, there was no justice that day. The cars were burned , and the house were destroyed. And after that every child here was having a very, very big problems with his psychological things. So, he was even after that, when he wanted to go, when he saw settler or army, he would just ask his father ‘will they do the same thing with what they have done the last year?’, or something like that.
So these like, also the families, they are just taking care of the children to like – to get this fear out of them and you know, to resist as they resist, during their lives. And you know, he just wants his children and the children in the community to have their rights as other children in the world. That they’re having the safety. All of the rights of education to go to school safe, not to face the checkpoints, to not have the injustice, the attacks. So he just hopes to his children to have all their rights as other children in the world.
Hazel 22:27
I’m really sorry to hear about the attack. It’s absolutely horrible, and especially a child being injured is completely unforgivable and really disgusting. I was wondering if there was anything else that you wanted to share and also, if you wanted to say anything about – about or for – international people coming here about why they should come? And if there’s any other message to give to the people who might be listening?
Gassim 23:11
[translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic] [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]
Translation 23:57
So he’s very grateful for the presence here and he is very thankful for all the efforts that they do that they came to be in solidarity with the people. And for example like including he is going to shepherding at least he feels some people that are standing with them, that there’s still some people who really care about that case, the Palestinian case, about all the violations that happens against them. And even now like just to show how the international presence is important is, for example, it happened with them when one time is one settler he was going to attack them, but there was international people with them. And they said for them ‘come tomorrow without these people’ you know as he just want to attack them.
Gassim 24:37
So we know that Khallet Al-Daba’ is facing eviction at the moment imminently and we’re just wondering. if they’re evicted does that mean that this village also will be next? Is it that this will then be evicted as well? [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic] [translation of question then answer from Gassim in Arabic]
Translation 25:40
So he say, he hope not, to the [eviction of] Khallet al-Daba’ village, but he said if they will evict the people and demolish everything there they will – they will not just on[ly] this village, they will go around all the Palestinian villages in Masafer Yatta. So this will be a threat on all the people around, in the community, and he hope not to happen this thing, and to have a big solidarity from everywhere from outside Palestine or inside, to stop all of this eviction and ethnic cleansing that the Israeli occupation is doing.
16 October | International Solidarity Movement | Masafer Yatta
For the last 42 years the Israeli occupation forces have been slowly but surely grinding the region of Masafer Yatta into dust. Now, in 2022, the various injunctions, petitions, hearings and a halfhearted international condemnation have amounted to nothing. The Israeli army has again successfully pushed through their application to forcibly transfer some 1,200 Palestinians to make way for a military firing zone. This is ethnic cleansing happening before our eyes.
At the gates to the valley lies the village of Khallat Al Dabaa, a well established resilient community. Persistent and violent Settler attacks, deliberate police negligence, military harassment, and the imminent threat of eviction makes life here increasingly difficult. A large portion of the Masafer Yatta valley has been designated a live firing range for military training dispute the existing residents. This is means displacing and demolishing the homes of 215 Palestinian households that have lived in these hills for generations, now under constant threat of eviction. In Khallat Al Dabaa, 20 structures have received demolition orders. The order demands that they personally destroy their own homes. Adding salt to the wound The residents had until the 29th of September and as they did not comply they will be charged for the cost of demolition. All the while the military training persists. Dropping bombs and firing live ammunition. Demolition and violence has been the only certainty for the communities of Masafer Yatta.
The Aldababseh brothers Jeber, father of five, Mohammed, father of twelve, and Amer, father of four, have had their homes demolished five times each over the past four years by the Israeli occupation forces. The vital school, the generators, the water pipes and five wells were also destroyed. Water pipes now have to be hidden from the army and settlers. Jeber said to ISM: “If they demolish everything we will rebuild, we have nowhere else to go. This is our home and this will be our grave.”
In a show of defiance from the local community and the activists on the ground, The ISM, together with the families of Khallet Al Dabaa has been painting large bold clear statements on the walls of the houses. Statements asking questions such as: “Where will I sleep”, “where will they stop”.
One statement reads “this is a home just like yours”. This is aimed directly at internationals asking them to draw a parallel with the situation here and their own lives. Your home is somewhere you will thrive in, sleep in, raise your family and somewhere you should feel safe. We want the international community to question what lengths they might go to protect their own home. This writing is not for the Israeli soldiers who come here for “military training”. The apartheid soldiers come here to evict, demolish and terrorise the community. It is unrealistic to think that this work will stop them in their tracks. This work is here to highlighting the human cost of this forcible transfer and raise international awareness. It’s is a call to action. The time is now. We must support these communities before they are eradicated. You can do this by either joining us on the ground here or from afar sharing and circulating as much information as you can. Solidarity can come in many forms.
In clear bold black and white text one statement reads: “LET ME LIVE MY LIFE” this has proven to be a daily challenge here and across the West Bank. We know this will contribute to a better appreciation of this urgent situation.
Making a stand and saving the village of Khalat Al Dabaa is specifically essential because Israel’s brutal occupation will not stop here. The local resistance committees and the ISM activists on the ground have resolved to do everything they can to help these communities survive this ordeal. If this village goes, it paves the way for the rest of the Masafer Yatta valley and the West Bank to be erased from the map.
Mahmoud Darwish sums up why the people stay, and how they have the strength to resist.
علَى هَذِهِ الأَرْض مَا يَسْتَحِقُّ الحَياةْ
We have on this land that which makes life worth living.
